Thread: Good post on Weapon speeds

Got this off the official site, someone's done a bit of math homework here

Re: Weapon Speeds: Fast vs. Normal [Re: SinPalabras]
#319628 - 07/21/05 11:06 AM Edit Reply Quote



Number crunching and getting into game mechanics is my specialty

Here you go:

(PAtk "Very slow" / 759) * 693 = PAtk "Slow" (about 0,913 of Very slow)
(PAtk "Slow" / 77.714) * 45,714 = PAtk "Normal" (about 0,588 of Slow)
(PAtk "Normal" / 305) * 251 = PAtk "Fast" (about 0,822 of Normal)
(PAtk "Fast" / 426,6) * 372,6 = PAtk "Very fast" (about 0,873 of Fast)


Dont ask me how I got these, its very complicated. If you dont trust the formula just test it on some examples:

a) Strengthened Longbow, Speed "Very Slow", PAtk 179
What would its PAtk be if it had another Speed ?

(179/759)*693 = 163,435 "Slow"
(163,435/77,714*45,714 = 96,138 "Normal"
(96,138/305)*251 = 79,117 "Fast"
(79,117/426,6*372,6 = 69,102 "Very fast"

Now round these numbers and compare them with other weapons of the same value. There is no "Slow" weapon in this price category but a Tarbar is "Fast" and has 79 PAtk and a Maingauche is "Very fast" and has 69 PAtk. Fits.

b) Crystal Dagger, Speed "Very fast", 136 PAtk
What would the Crystal daggers PAtk be if it had another speed ?

136/0,873 = 155,784, rounded 156 "Fast"
156/0,822 = 189,781 rounded 190 "Normal"
190/0,588 = 323,129 rounded 323 "Slow"
323/0,913 = 353,778 rounded 354 "Very slow"

There is no "Very slow" weapon in Crystal daggers price category but a "Normal" Great Pata has PAtk 190, a "Fast" Yaksa Mace has PAtk 156 and a "Slow" Eminence Bow has PAtk 323.

With these formulas, you can convert any PAtk to what it would be at other speeds, and if you check up on all the weapons existing in the game you will find that their PAtk is extremely consistent within this system.

Coming back to your original question:
A Berserker Blade with PAtk 250 ("Normal") would have (250/305)*251=205,737 PAtk at Speed "Fast". Rounded to 206, this is just 1 PAtk less than the 207 PAtk of the overenchanted SLS.

Funny enough that same formula works on EverQuest 2 Weapons, its exactally the same.

Everyone uses this type of formula where u think L2 got it from hey Taemek lol

Oh yeah i know about how much of a copy EQ2 is from other games, its amazing when you have played games like L2, WoW and then u go and play EQ2 and see how much they acually used in that game that compairs to L2 and WoW. I was very dissapointed when i played EQ2 and found so many little and big things that were all so alike, made me feel like i was always playing that same game, but with different graphics, especially with WoW and EQ2, there so alike it isnt even funny. Major dissapointment and i cant understand why i played them for a year :-( , but it brought me back to L2, which im happy about.

Maybe one day there will be a totally oringal and brand new mechanics released in the world of MMORPG's that no one has ever seen, similar to when EQ was first released and UO online and the sorts. The type of game mechanics where no one knows, or can use past formulas, and game play styles, something where u cant learn how mob AI works with in a week would be great too. Dont think it will happen anytime soon though.

I read somewhere that many of the algorithms have been reworked from L1.
If this is the case it goes even further to show how sad the US programmers are where they rip off content from other countries and brand it as their own.
In case you may not have known L1 is UO vintage and L2 predates WoW and EQ2 by about 12 months.
As far as algorithms go they are similar and will continue to be so simply because they all gravitate towards the same purpose - to generate a randomised outcome based on multi variable input.
Where the meat of the next MMORPG sandwich will lie is not so much in how they calculate the math behind the toons actions but how well will they set the toons in both lore and their world dynamics.

The things to look for in my opinion would be;
1. How are the races structured - is there any relevance to each of them within the proposed millieu. How well are they bound to the lore of the game?

2. How are the classes structured - do they support the race and lore concepts and how close do they get to the holy grail of balancing between them?

3. What is the risk vs reward system - how is it balanced between solo/multibox acheivable content vs raid based content requiring a number of ppl to defeat the encounter?
This is where L2 is having issues imho. The fact that soloing and multiboxing gives greatest rewards has been the thorn in the side of the game for a long time. I have a suspicion that it will take another 12 months or so for the world to "fill up" with sufficient content of the mundane armour and weapons that twinking will become as easy as in EQ1 and its the high level raid/quest game wich will drive folks into "proper" (/smirk) clan structures which need to work together IOT progress.
I am overjoyed to read on the C2 website that this is allready in motion as for example you have to do a raid to raise the crystal from 10 to 11 to SA your A grade and above weapons. This is the stuff that the farmers are unlikely to compete with.

4. The world economy - is it player dependant or world dependant? In L2 its predominantly player dependant because even tho the materials for items drop off mobs, its not untill the players modify them that new equipment is made. This is the antithesis of the EQ model where you got most of your equipment through raid drops.

As a side note: Interestingly enough I am still wondering whether the L2 raid game offers the same carrot as that of EQ1, for those who are well enough organised to take advantage of it. I'll guess we might find out in due course

5. Graphics/Game Engine - This is another biggie (esp in my books) which separates one game from another. The immersion factor behind the lore, races, classes has to be supported by a workable game engine and reasonable graphics. Due to technology and programming advancements I think this component of the games will be the easiest to influence. Its still got to tie in with 1 and 2 to actually keep the playerbase

So in a nutshell those would be the first bits I tick off my list as I look to new games.

Don't forget as well that as with EQ1 the L2 developers will be fighting hard to retain your dollars and even L2 may wind up somewhere were we just cannot begin to immagine. (9 more chronicles to go ...)

If you have played EQ1 from release (circa 99) then as I you will note the massive metamorphosis the game has undergone. I am curious as to how the shape of L2 will be influenced by its competitors... I know EQ1 had to make some fundamental concessions which ultimately led to its playerbase regression. That and the fact that it had a market monopoly for close to 3 years

Anyway someone start a thread if you have the research time on what offerings are on the horizon and whether they essentially offer anything different from that what we play now.