EVO 2004 - Questions for officials if required.

Please post below any questions that you have for the Official EVO4 announcement.
Any abuse will not be tolerated.
All questions will be answered by a DGA Official as soon as possible.

It has been raised to a few Admins that the $35 entry fee is too high.

I will try to explain it as clear as possible as to why we have settled on that price.

The entry price was settled on after we went through and worked out exactly how much it would cost us to run the event. After the venue, tables, chairs etc etc. This was the only way we could run the event and cover costs at the same time ..

If anybody has any issues please post them here so that we can explain them out too you as best possible.

I don't have a problem with paying the $35 over the 3 days at evo. But now that i have read its a $35 flat rate (whether you spend 1 or 3 days at evo). I honestly think this is a bit unfair. I know that you have to cover cost and what not, but I now have some friends saying (who were orginaly only going to spend 1day for family/religous/working reasons) that they are not going to go at all. Some of their reasons are because they can't afford it for just one simple day when they could end up spending 3days instead (and they would prefur that but can't) others just think its rediculas and stay at home and play on their adsl. So if I having people telling me this, i am sure their are others who have now changed their minds. So instead of orginaly getting $20 or so, DGA gets nothing.

I have a feeling that the other reason for the flate rate is because people who say they are going to stay for one day end up over staying their welcome. I don't know why you couldn't think of another solution instead of making everyone suffer.

Some solutions I have thought of:
I understand that we will all be given tags, people who are only going to stay for one day the admins can:
- Give them a certain tag (Colour coded or something),
- Big fat cross on their tag or if you are worried about people washing it off make it almost impossible for them.
- Allocate them seats
Along with taking down nick names and names for people only stayings one or two days.

I know you are going to complain its effort and you have better things to do with your time. But thats what's part of organising is about and to make it fair to everyone. If each admin could every now again ask to see peoples tags, check up on people and what not the system will work. And anyone who is found to over staying their welcome could be band, which will lower the chances of them abusing the system.

edit: Sorry Unseen you posted same time as i did :P

We discussed this matter late into the night. And it wasnt something easy to decide on.

In saying that we looked at every possible way to keep the costs down and this is one area that we couldnt bring down. So we have lowered to cost of food and drinks.

And in saying that your $35 doesnt only get you in the door, it gets you 24/7 tech support. A network to transfer files on. And a great venue and atmosphere to play games in.

Really what I am saying is that we have tried to make everything as fair and just for everybody and we do understand this may be harder for some.

Quote from w00p:
So instead of orginaly getting $20 or so, DGA gets nothing.

Quote from Unseen:
And in saying that your $35 doesnt only get you in the door, it gets you 24/7 tech support. A network to transfer files on. And a great venue and atmosphere to play games in.
We have always gotten this at every single lan. And we value the admins for the great job. Why should it be any different now?

Quote from Unseen:
So we have lowered to cost of food and drinks
Why don't you make us pay more for the food and drinks. For example the drinks are going to be " each, say add another 50cents to that. And you know how much people love caffeine, coke will sell thru the roof! And the money you make here will make up for the people who want to stay for 1day.

If you lower the price on peoples entry fee for 1 or 2 days the money they save will go straight back on food! And if you were really worried about not making enough money then mebbe you should of re thought your pizza idea where ppl can get them at any time. What do you think people will rather a hot dog DGA is selling for $2.50 or a large pizza for $5?(where DGA makes no profit) Most people will go with the pizza.

I have layed out some ideas, can you please atleast take them into consideration.

Ok woop, lets say we lower it to $20 for one day. That would mean we would have to sell an extra 30 cokes on top of normal for each person who attends for one day. Thats 50c extra for a coke X 30 cokes = "5 loss from $35 down to $20.

We are not trying to rip anyone off here. We are trying to cover costs people. The venue, chairs, tables, food all cost a lot of money, as we do live in Darwin. We cant just put the price really low and HOPE that you spend more money on food and drink. What if you dont?? Do we use Admins own personal money to supply you with 3 days of entertainment, that we get paid nothing for, and spend a lot of our spare times months before?? Do u honestly think thats fair.
U also stated that the DGA wont receive a price of $20 if those people dont come. Well EVO was never going to be $20 for one day. The minimum it was going to be was $30, and that was for 1 or 2 days.
What you have to understand is that $30 for each person DOES NOT cover the cost of the EVO event. $35 does cover the cost and will HOPEFULLY and i say that while praying to the lord, cover all the costs and give us a little extra so that we may buy equipment instead of borrowing it. This equipment includes some tables and chairs, servers, powercords, distribution boxes, large eskis and food/drink utensils etc.
DGA do not own this equipment so if any time any of the admins or other people who assist us decide to NOT let DGA use this equipment, we will then have to go and RENT it and add on further costs to future EVO's and DGA's.
I do understand its going to seem expensive for the one day people, but I do encourage them to stay for as long as possible, and use this gaming time with their friends and fellow DGA gamers to the fullest.
I hope this has helped you with your questions.

For a single day $20 would be a better option, more fair. If not then make it $25,$30. Just make it more logical. Doesn't just have to be in exacts of $5's either. People want to pay for what they get.

$35 for 2,3 days covers the rest.

Not everyone is going to be accessing the food or wanting the food, so to be more fair the prices should be rounded down for single days. This will affect everyone giving the discount to everyone. Usually when fundraising is done, it's done through the food at fairs and stuff. Why bring down the prices of food. If the needy need food, then they'll have to pay more rather than go out for food.

Now enforcing this. It requires effort. But effort isn't too much to ask. Getting some extra admins like last year would be a good start. One idea to enforce this, is having seating location numbers and their registration linked to it and requiring them to have their receipt of payment at all times.
If you want to go further as to enforcing people are paying to per person not sharing per connection. Take photos, link it to their seat number. Obviously this isn't the only way, this is the community forums so it would be an idea to ask for help from the community.
Since we are attending it would be good to get feedback from the people how they think it could be policed so it is more fair for everyone. The only people who would lose out would be the people paying for a day and then staying longer.

There is someone I know who might be able to attend only for a day or so. Though if I tell them now the price has gone up, well most likely they won't be coming.

It is more of a risk that more people won't come than more people won't pay enough.

Jay, with all the points you have stated, we would need to double our admin staff. People like the officials (admins) who attend these functions, dont necessarily want to walk around like police, making u feel like they are watching your every move, making sure you have your receipt, that you are out by 5pm on the dot, etc etc. We are trying to make it as easy for people as we can to enjoy themselves without feeling like they are being over policed.
We spent 4 hours last night going through every idea you had. None of them in the end would work. We DO NOT have a definate number of gamers, or even close, that may attend. Its easy for you to say drop the price and raise the food, but the food is there to hopefully buy us maybe some more equipment for the future. If we dont get the numbers of gamers say, and we rely on the food, what if the food dosent sell. Will you then give us some more of your money to cover the cost that we have paid already?? I dont think so. Sure if we had numbers of gamers attending months before, and had the money upfront, well it would be a perfect world. But as it is, some people turn up on the day. We have to predict a rough idea of how many people are going to attend for 1, 2 ore 3 days, how many are going to register and how many will turn up on the day. Its very risky and Im sure you would expect us admins to risk losing ours and our families money to cover the expenses.

Reguarding the $20 i have no idea how much it generally was, this will be my first time to an evo as a gamer.

I thankyou very much Ebola for clearing this up with. It would be great in future if changes like this are going to happen, if they could be explained publicly and given a prober answer like you did ebola.
I hope that with the money you make this evo will be enough and more so you can put the money towards getting new equipment so in future the prices wont be so high for one or two day lanners.

Within saying that, i hope this only happens on evo's and does not take place on regular DGA events or find other options to cover the cost. If there is the worry of over stayers maybe look more into Jays idea.

I do appreciate the effort the admins go through and if at any time you need extra help i am happy to lend a hand.

Further more on EV's post

We had to find a medium as to what price to settle on. To 1 cover the costs and 2 too make some sort of profit as too purchase equiptment so that we can get more DGA tables, more DGA switches etc etc .. the list of what we need isnt short.

This is the best we can do. I do appologise to those that think this is too much for 1 day, but to those there is nothing we can do.

As EV posted a while ago, if gamers are having issues with money then contact an admin and we will see what we can do for those people.

If that's the case, if in danger of running low on the return of funds. Why bring the food prices down? To hungry gamers - coke and a sausage sizzle could sell at "0 each. Some serious potential there could be in danger of being wasted.

JaY now that was just a stupid comment. We try to keep the costs of EVERYTHING down, not ramp up EVO and charge u basically nothing for food.
EVERYTHING is being kept to a minimum for you. If your going to be smart, go play tetris at home.

That was not a smart comment Ebola at all.
It was stating a fact. NOW I AM NOT HAPPY WITH RESPONSES. I was thinking people would know that I don't shit around like some of the morons around here. It is something I was irked with. If there is a serious problem with funds why ditch the food which could be used as fundraiser.

The reason I suggested that is fundraisers to companies ramp this bit to help with costs. People realise this bit and never complain. I've even bought a $5 sausage and bread at a fair when I was hungry from a store.

Yes I exaggerated with the "0 but as I said it's an idea to help keep afloat. Have an eater BBQ of legend and there's some seriously helpings.

" for a soft drink is very cheap for an non-profit group who are trying to raise money.

Edit: eek my bad i meant for soft drink

Well dont exagerate the "0 bit. You might think that you are joking etc but you are making it just that bit harder for me to explain to 200 people that attend these events that we are working for you.
I dont know what the final prices for the food will be. It will be kept to a minumum but will also be a little bit of profit for DGA to help us in the future, and yes to hopefully keep costs down. Im not sure where woop got the " for a sausage figure from, but Im presuming $2 - $3 for a hotdog with the lot and maybe " or so per drink. Those figures cant be finalised yet.
*edited by me* " for soft drinks is correct woop. I have been told that is what you meant. No worries mate.

I understand what you are saying but we cant make food expensive to help with the cost of EVO. If you can imagine how much food we will have wasted if it dosent sell as its too expensive etc. We have to try and juggle everything so the prices are correct and TRY and make everyone happy.
We have to remember that the price for one day was going to be $30 so we have moved it to $5 higher and a flat rate. This helps admins save time with checking your ticket every so often and we can spend time organising games, competitions, sorting out food, any problems with venue and all computer related problems which ALWAYS occur at the lans, including those nasty virus' (touch wood).
Please assist us in this EVO to understand we want everyone to join us and enjoy themselves, so that we can make EVO and the smaller DGA events a great friendly and inexpensive occasion.

[quote=Ebola Virus]
I understand what you are saying but we cant make food expensive to help with the cost of EVO. If you can imagine how much food we will have wasted if it dosent sell as its too expensive etc.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying too, but you see the choice of food for us is optional the payment of the door fee is not. You are going to loose money if you like it or not. Some people wont come because of wanting to stay one or two days and don't want to pay $35. Some people wont buy food because they can't afford it. So you are in a circle. I suggest mebbe a DGA car wash :D and other fund raising in future.

[quote=Ebola Virus]This helps admins save time with checking your ticket every so often and we can spend time organising games, competitions, sorting out food, any problems with venue and all computer related problems[/quote]
Like i said i am happy to offer my time to help, and i am sure there are others like me.[/quote]

If needed, my hand is up as a volunteer EVO staff member.

theres heaps of people willing to help FOR FREE!!- Just ask :)

Yeah but then we will have 200 officials and 1 gamer. Thank you people, if we require any help we will definately ask around.
If you want to help on Monday, you can hang around to help clean up all the rubbish and tables. Thats serious too, we could use the help if you want to.
Cheers

Due to recent concerns in regards to the price of 1 day attendence to DGA Evo 2004, we are prepared to offer a $30 entry fee to those gaming for 1 day ON THE SATURDAY. If you are attending either sunday or monday for 1 day then you will be subjected to the normal entry fee of $35. Any questions reply here.

http://www.gamers-underground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14525

DGA Administratio

I don't mean to be rude at this very stressful time for DGA administrators, but let me just say this small thing.

Perhaps you should look up the concept of the break-even point. Good business planning is not based on cost-plussing the price of the thing you're selling. Instead you add up all your fixed costs, and work out how many units you'll need to sell to cover that. This is your break-even point, after which everything is profit.

The upshot is that on a break-even planning model, it makes excellent sense to sell whatever you can sell. Pricing different products to different market segments is more profitable than not doing so, especially when you have a monopoly - effectively DGA's position.

For instance, it is *more* profitable for the Darwin Bus Service to sell both normal fares and concession fares, because the fixed costs are there anyhow. What varies is how much many can be garnered. The concession fare pays less, but it still adds up to the break-even point.

The upshot is that I suspect you'll find that going to the classic EVO pricing model will do you better at the end of the day than a single flat pricing model. While you will pick up attendees who on paper look like losses, they have still put their $20 towards what are your fixed costs: rent, food, tables & equipment.

Just my 5c: I know it's a poor explanation. A better one requires graphs and examples; frankly I can't be bothered. :)

Cool Unseen. Hopefully that'll rope a few more in I'll be willing to help if needed.

I removed this post cause I can

I tried to preface my comments with "not to be rude at this stressful time".

I mean I've been involved in the clubs & associations scene myself for a few years. I know it sucks that you work hard, and all you get is complaints.

I thought that I was giving some constructive input. This is what we're often asked for, n'est pas?

The problem is that there's no good time to give our comments to DGA admin. You do a very good job, and I am always prepared, sleep and budget willing, to enjoy a DGA event. But admins seem to have developed a classic siege mentality, which remains operative 24/7.

The best thing to do now would be to lay the issue aside until a while after EVO.

Ok back to it.. This is a thread designed for questions, not comments .. So if you have a question you would like to ask feel free.

Anything else will be moderated.

El Presedente',
Mate the problem we have with EVO is its hard to get the numbers of people who will attend. Some EVO's have been in the 140's and some in the 160's and you can never hope its going to be even bigger as what if it dosent? We could lose a lot of money. So we are doing what every business does to survive, we look at the worst case scenario for costs and if we get a lot of people, and make more money that we think, it just means that DGA will be able to buy more equipment for the future and keep costs down for as long as possible.
Hope I have in some way answered your query. You did have some good comments though.

I just noticed the other thread about the pricing, and I can see how I may have come across as Yet Another Whiner.

I do understand the problems of variable attendence. Freedom LANs have lost money on bad weeks, and made it back on good weeks. We had a good cushion from our fundraising efforts in 2002, however, and we are fortunate in that we do not face the high fixed costs DGA does - although that may be changing in the new year.

For the record I feel that $35 is a fair and reasonable price for three days of hassle-free LANning. Frankly dollar-for-dollar it beats every other form of entertainment. It's dirt cheap per-hour when compared to movies, rentals, alcohol or hookers (or all of the above).

El Pres....Many thanks for your words mate. In theory correct however when taken in context with the said event unfortunately off the mark a bit. But hey priceing has been bashed to death as of late, the margins were just too close to call for such a large event. As it stands at the moment with the current stucture of $30 for 1 Day ( Saturday ) and $35 for 2 or 3 days we stand as previously publish to make a return to profit of a little over "000. Thats taking into account 172 Gamers through the door.
As for the shortness of some of My Admins, well I can't blame them. In all my time running, organising and attending DGA's I have personally had to put up with the following. Cleaning up of Vomit, Shit, food scraps, spillages and general rubbish. People sneeking in without paying. People being drunk and obusive. Being accused of stealing, profitering, favouritism. Whilst all this goes on I still run around and organise sponsership, venues. Set up and clear up of venues, Seek assistance from people at the events, which most of the time is lacking in response. In general most poeple are good but there are those that just make it so difficult at times for what ever reason. I dare say most of the admins have had a similar time. Yet we keep on going for little or no favour.
If at times my Admins appear to fly off the handle it is usually due to a trigger being set off and I do apologise for there lack of tact at times but hey they are human.
Shit I was prepared to go around to someones house a few days ago with confrontation in mind because I had virtually been accused of Stealing and profiteering off DGA, but I chose another avenue.
SO basically we try and try dam hard but occasionaly may fall to the basics of human nature..............I would like to think that even with all this we still manage to put on a kick ass show...............

It is all clear now. :) Thank you for discussing issues of the Association so openly.

I do love DGA I have been there since the start and am willing to offer any help I maybe able to give.

Maybe the price should be fixed and the per day crap gotten rid of. Do the people renting the joint to us charge less when half the people go home on the third day?

It really does feel like everything is set to be a really fun lan.

i think the price should be "5... and the ugly people should pay $55...

i hope i'm paying "5!

on the serious side, $35 is good for 3 days entertainment.

We tried the one price for 3 days Wortel, thats what we wanted to do, but we had more complaints than was worth the hassle.
And no, the place we rent from dosent care what time we go home on Monday, if we go past midnight sunday, its another day.
They have even for free let us get it ready on friday and pack up monday arvo and tue, so we cant complain.

hopefully with these prices we can encourage people to stay longer and get a consistant number over the 3 days
and i woudl like to see normal dgas have a fixed payment not this 1 or 2 days crap

Hmm I did a fairly quick read through this thread and well I can't honestly see why everyone's complaining.

Seriously a lot of you people have to look at the difference between happiness and wealth - do it for once :)

Personally, I have always paid, I have always paid the 2/3 day fee even if i stay 1 day. I do it because I enjoy DGA, I enjoy the atmosphere, meeting up with online mates, and the low ping gaming :P Nothing pleases me more than to help DGA become bigger and better, as I know it's better for me and all the other gamers in the end.

What i'm trying to say is that every dga is worth more than its small entry price. Just think about it.

If anyone b!tches about the price and leeches anything over the entry fee price - I call you stupid...

Just don't think of the cost, pay the fee and have a wonderful time as EVO4 is going to rock.

note: yeah its 6:20am if that didnt make sense sorry, ill reread when wake up :P

Looks good Jono and thoroughly agree

I know this thread wasn't really open for comments but Hell you should all be happy. At QGL here in brissy i think its something like 35 bucks for two days game play. $35 to run this size comp over three days is a GREAT price. Count your lucky stars guys. I know i will be handing over my 35 happily!!

Cya up there guys cant wait!!!!

17 more sleeps :D

You lot are simply spoilt rotten!!!!!

I am lucky in the fact I only have to travel from Katherine, attempt to find some accomodation, fuel to and from ect ect.... Think of the people coming form Alice or down south and over east? Hell I look forward to every Evo as this is the chance we/I get to meet and speak to people face to face. And to catch up on things we may not know about or have heard due to our issolation.......

35 dollars is a real cheap amount, I would pay double if I had too..... I have been to 3 evos now and trust me I have seen the effort and work these admins and not only them put into the event.... I bet alot of us would be shocked if we really knew the amount of organisation that is needed to be carried out to run an event such as EVO!

Well I am certainly looking forward to shelling out my 35 and getting my ass owned in CS!

Raker hope you got some Hard drive space free :lol:

Quote from Thumper:

Raker hope you got some Hard drive space free :lol:
i think futa woudl be more interested about the stuff on ya hdd
:P

Quote from Thumper:

Raker hope you got some Hard drive space free :lol:

Oh yeah,

Let me say to you, do you have any spare????? Cause u are going to need it. :)

Look forward to seeing you there too Thumper.

:cry: :cry: Well to be honest hmmm errrrrr no...... I bought a sx6000 raid and been having problems with it so the next 2 hard drives have not been installed...... Might have to simple get off my butt and sort it out and then get ready!
Anyone know of some decent prices for h/drives, I'll need 2 x 200gig, preferably west digitals? I do not know of any places in Darwin since the demise of frontline!

email me [email]shaunmcgowan@yahoo.com[/email] please. Thanks, Thumps.[/url]

Call my mate Bill 8932 6700 or P-Air (Peter) 041719 9121

Good to hear from you again Thumper :)

fyi, P-air is on Thursday Island till Jan 14th

:lol: Thanks Tn1

Raker get ready... I now have a 1x 160 gig free, 2 x 80 gigs free (to be picked up in darwin) and 2 x 200 gig are on the way next week (thankyou tn1).....

Will there be a wireless AP setup?

Quote from morge:
Will there be a wireless AP setup?

Hasnt been discussed so I would say No .. unless somebody sets it up themselves.

Ill have one there but it will be used for server admin and for when I lay in bed at night and watch movies

Ok so judging by the responses in the earlier posts... There will be food on sale...

May I ask what food exactly will be on sale?

sausage inna bun

leonami look at your avatar = the food you will be having

I was damned sure i saw a post in general by someone about the food on sale.... something about a menu.......

Quote from leonami:
May I ask what food exactly will be on sale?