Johnny to Send 450 more personel to Iraq

Most are based from 2cav and 5/7 both part of 1 brigade in Darwin.

Linkies.

AUSTRALIA will send another 450 troops to Iraq, increasing the country's military contingent by 50 per cent, following a surprise announcement by Prime Minister John Howard this morning.

The troops would deploy in 10 weeks time and stay for six months, followed by a second six-month rotation, to provide security for Japanese military engineers in the southern province of Al Muthanna, Mr Howard said. Mr Howard said he knew the decision, triggered by the Netherlands' decision to withdraw 1400 troops from the task of rebuilding Iraq, would be unpopular, and he admitted that lives could be lost.

But he said Al Muthanna was one of the safer parts of Iraq and was far less dangerous than areas around Baghdad and further north.

"It's remained relatively benign," Mr Howard said.

"It's a lot better and this is a much safer part of Iraq than the Sunni triangle."

Australia already has some 900 personnel in the Middle East, with about 400 inside Iraq, engaged in a variety of roles including training Iraq forces and providing security.

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The new deployment, drawn mainly from the Darwin-based 1st Brigade, would comprise a headquarters element, cavalry squadron, infantry company, training team plus 40 Australian light armoured vehicles known as ASLAVs, Mr Howard said.

Key elements are likely to be drawn from the 2 Cavalry Regiment and the Army's 5/7 Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment (5/7 RAR).

Soldiers from both have served recently with the Australian security detachment in Baghdad and have valuable experience of operations inside Iraq.

The province remains under overall British responsibility and the Australian group will need to draw on British logistic support.

Their job would be to assist Japanese forces engaged in the rebuilding process, such as constructing new roads and schools, Mr Howard said.

The taskforce will also help train Iraqi security forces.

Japan welcomed the Australian decision.

"The decision is encouraging for the international community which is working to rebuild Iraq," Japanese Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura said.

"The Government of Japan welcomes and highly appreciates the decision.

Japan has 600 troops in the southern town of Samawa, the first time since World War II that Japanese troops have been in a country at war.

Japan renounced the right to use force in its US-imposed 1947 constitution, and its troops in Iraq have not fired their weapons since the start of the deployment in December 2003.

Mr Howard said the rebuilding process was even more essential following the elections in Iraq last month.

"The Government believes that Iraq is very much at a tilting point and it's very important that the opportunity of democracy, not only in Iraq, but also in other parts of the Middle East, be seized and consolidated," he said.

Australia's fresh contribution to Iraq was triggered by the Netherlands' decision last November to withdraw its forces.

The new contribution had been requested by the Japanese Government, which indicated it could not stay without adequate protection, Mr Howard said.

"There have been discussions between the Australian Government, the British Government – bearing in mind the UK forces have overall security responsibility for the Al Muthanna province – and the Japanese Government over recent weeks," Mr Howard said.

"The Prime Minister of Japan, Junichiro Koizumi, telephoned me last Friday night and, among other things, invited and requested this Australian contribution."

Mr Howard said British Prime Minister Tony Blair had telephoned him in Auckland yesterday morning to confirm the request, which had previously been conveyed by British Foreign Minister Jack Straw to Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, and by British Defence Minister Geoffrey Hoon to his Australian counterpart, Robert Hill.

The decision could cost at least $250 million to $300 million a year, Mr Howard said. with Agence France-Presse

man australia is pov

seems as tho none of the other countries in the 'coalition of the willing' were all that 'willing' to send any more troops, and we get stuck with the short straw.

Maybe it's because, you know, the Japanese are legally unable to defend themselves?

What should we do? Let 'em rot? It's not like they can get Godzilla to kill insurgents.

Think about it.

Pres, you ruined it for everybody. It was so much easier jumping on the "bash Howard, let's get out of Iraq" wagon.

Now we actually have to think through for ourselves what the ramifications of our "silly" comments are.

;-)

Well to be fair, it wasn't a war we should have been in the first place.

But I imagine we'll get something nice and juicy from the Japanese for protecting their engineering corps.

I say that we should ask for first dibbs on any Mechas they develop in future.

Why cant the get Godzilla El. its not hard for them to make a giant robot one i rekon ;)

Well that's the problem. Even if they built mecha, they still wouldn't be able to use 'em.

The JSDF is tapdancing on the very edge of Japanese law as-is, by present in a theatre of war.

Consider the scenario where a car speeds towards Japanese engineers. Inside are two men who are wearing balaclavas. In this situation, it is illegal for those engineers to do anything about it, except perhaps run. They cannot shoot the tyres, they cannot shoot the driver. In short, a stock standard suicide car attack cannot be defended against under the Japanese constitution.

Australian soldiers, in the same scenario, would put the rifles to their shoulders, and make clear gestures to stop. According to their orders, they'd probably try to shoot the driver to stop them coming any closer.

In this scenario, the crazies can be stopped before they kill Japanese engineers busily doing what the Japanese have done so well in Japan: building really impressive stuff which improves people's lives.

So I don't think this deployment is so crazy. It's absolutely no different than Australian troops sent to East Timor to keep order there, or indeed to anywhere else where soldiers have been sent to protect humanitarian efforts.

The Japanese defence force can arm itself El Pres, just a few certain conditions have to be fullfilled first.

Japanese Constitution...LOL I dont think Japanese created it :P

Wondering if my brother has to go. :(

If he aint 2cav or 5/7 which he is Arty? ? then he wont go ..

Also my sources :D are they are going to a place where they havnt seen contact for nearly 8 weeks .. Last contact was a dud RPG that landed in the area.

Quote from Xaine:

Now we actually have to think through for ourselves what the ramifications of our "silly" comments are.

;-)

no ramifications at all. The powers that be don't really considered the views of people in this forum.

Quote from jarthel:
no ramifications at all. The powers that be don't really considered the views of people in this forum.

That would make sense if it actually made sense....

um...in Engrish preeze?

Quote from CoCoBuckeTs:
The Japanese defence force can arm itself El Pres, just a few certain conditions have to be fullfilled first.

It can't act positively. It's arguable if it can even act in retaliation. In any case, they can't proactively defend themselves. Without escorts, they'd leave.

Quote:
Japanese Constitution...LOL I dont think Japanese created it :P

No, they didn't, but they take it seriously. It's been around for 50 years, and they've decided not to change it, even though they could.

They cant be deployed into a combat zone, and true they have an aversion even to acting in self defence, but when under fire they do have the rights to fire back, they just have to go and get the guns first :)

And they don't like their constitution much at all El Pres...maybe the younger generation dont give a crap but the older Japanese..its definately a burning issue.

Did you read the scenario I posted above? The one where the Japanese die in a carbomb attack because they can't react until it explodes?

El Pres do u have any idea WTF is going on over there ??

Your talking somebody driving through numourous check points to get too where they are.

Let alone a CAR BOMB is parked on the side of the road with 15 other cars, and soon as a patrol goes by it explodes. They arnt on teh front line.

------------------

If this sounds aggressive it is cause it is .. Dad just came back from a posting from Iraq so give up on your pointless BS.

Unseen, one way or the other, the Japanese can't take active steps - ie, shooting folk - to prevent attacks. Remember that these checkpoints have to be manned by folk who shoot at potential attackers. Like the Dutch, and now Australians.

We were asked by the Japanese to go and keep an eye on them. They were set to leave because they can't do it themselves.

I mean think about it. Where's the political capital in sending soliders, when you've already said you don't think you need to? Why send soldiers where they aren't needed?

I think it's good that your Dad is back and can beat up my Dad. But let's not pretend that you are suddenly Tha Sooper Foreign Affairs D00D.

Im not the super foreign affairs dood and my dad couldnt hurt a fly :D not that type of soldier.

But what you are posting in that scenario is in no way going to happen.

Thats where the flaw in your statement lyes. no where else.

Textbook rubbish////

Seqo is the best man to speak to with matters Japanese..:)

and the flaw in your statement is that it's impossible to make blanket statements like that. it may be unlikely, but i'd certainly not say it will never happen.

Im happy to say it wont happen as I know what security they actually have in place, for where they are now and where they are going in the country ..

but its cool where I see his statement as flawed. you may see mine.

OK, even assuming that I'm completely wrong, even "textbook" wrong, then riddle me this, Batman: Why did the Japanese ask us to go and keep watch over their engineering corps?

because aussies are the best goddamn soldiers in the world and when faced with the choice they picked the best!

nuff said!

Quote from El Presidente:
Maybe it's because, you know, the Japanese are legally unable to defend themselves?

What should we do? Let 'em rot? It's not like they can get Godzilla to kill insurgents.

Think about it.

Legally not able to defend themselves. Correct. Yet since the American-created Japanese Constitution the Japanese Self Defence Force has had an expiditionary capacity in Cambodia, East Timor, Rwanda, Mozambique, the Golan Heights and Afghanistan, and in Iraq.

El Pres. I thought you of all people would know the difference between legal obligations and political ability.

Quote from ahli:
Legally not able to defend themselves. Correct. Yet since the American-created Japanese Constitution the Japanese Self Defence Force has had an expiditionary capacity in Cambodia, East Timor, Rwanda, Mozambique, the Golan Heights and Afghanistan, and in Iraq

And in none of these cases has the JSDF gone in as a fighting force - it's only ever turned up as a peacekeeping force. This is not the same as a force of occupation or traditional fighting force.

Ahli. Whoever you are. I thought you of all people would know the difference between peacekeeping and warfighting.

Quote from El Presidente:
OK, even assuming that I'm completely wrong, even "textbook" wrong, then riddle me this, Batman: Why did the Japanese ask us to go and keep watch over their engineering corps?

Because the dutch are leaving and they need somebody to look after them.

Let alone I dont see how 450 troops will make up for 1200 Dutch troops... They are on a peacekeeping operation.

As far as why did they ask Australia ?? Maybe its been on the books for a long time for Australia to send more troops and this was the chance to do it.

Either way they are going and the reasons for we can only go from what we are told.

This is what they train for hence good for them being allowed to go. Id rather see them go then sitting here doing didly squat.