Elly has been doing a fair bit of talking and negotiations lately as he is trying to bring us to start playing with the big boys of the server, something I fully support and agree its about time we did it.
He has hit a few roadblocks so this is really the last chance people have for alliance discussion before we make a decision.
If this thread doesnt get the responses Elly and I will just do it and unfortunately tough rocks if you don't like it. :)
We NEED to know the following.
1. Alliances - To join or to Form? Can we join another alliance if we already have our own? I believe this is a YES but would like to make sure. ie: If we form our own alliance can we then join that alliance to another or do we disband and join the clans to it?
Next is what do you guys WANT?
Do you want our own alliance or do we want to join someone else.
2. If you want to join someone else WHICH side would you like to join. On one side are FA/DV/Dhara/Static/PDA Another is the DREAD alliance Another is the Ultimate Alliance Another is Ferst's Aussie clan (smaller than us but higher level)
3. If we form our own alliance we need to decide on a name. As we are not well known our current name Screaming BUckets is making it hard for Elly to be taken seriously. Whether we start XP'ing in the high level areas or start a fight, we need some recognition to join "a side" or to been seen as more than a social PVE clan. I would support a more serious name such as Southern Armada or similar instead of a play on words on our current clan name. Also having an ally would make it much easier for ppl like GLor and Taemak who play on different timezones to find parties as well.
Allying means sieges and a lot more.
PLEASE RESPOND on thoughts about other alliances, ideas, names
Forming our own alliance has the advantage of we decide where the alliance goes but would mean when we start sieging we only have us to fall back on and we would need to gather more clans to our banner :), would also mean it'll take longer befor we are ready to siege, How long would this take?
Joining an already formed alliance would mean we could prob start sieging stright away as all but the the last one on the list own castles or are activly trying to take them, but also mean we pick up a whole bunch of enemys straight away.
Either way we are gonna have to start fighting, more nights in the Col mite be called for :). This may also make it hard on the Low lvls.
Ferst's Aussie clan who are they?
The below is from the L2 Home page Quote: Limitations of Creating an Alliance
If a clan already belongs to an alliance, the clan cannot create an alliance of its own, nor can it join another alliance. During a castle siege, a clan on the offensive side cannot form an alliance with a clan on the defensive side and vice-versa. The clans that are engaged in a clan war against each other cannot form an alliance. An alliance can consist of up to twelve clans, including the alliance leader's clan.
Cant find anything on the site to say Clan must be lvl 4 to join an alliance. Nor can i find anything about joining 2 alliances together.
i see advantages to both sides making our own or joining another.
advantages first if we join another allaince we can borrow most of there structure to help us grow learn a few tricks on the higher lvl clan stuff how and also get into things like raids and seiges
disadvatages we get enemies we dont even know a bout it may cost us adena to be a part of them we may be required to have certain numbers of clan members to events witch we have enough problems doing now .
advatages we know the enemies we set the costs and we set the rules about events
disadvantages we grow much slower
so it would seem joining an allaince would just accelerate the good and the bad
i have said from the begining that i was a happy to help the clan get where ever it wanted to go as i just wanted it to make talking to ppl easier
but if i acutaly had to make a decision (yes hell just froze over) i would say join an allaince that we can live with would be the best way to go and move any ppl not interested in this path to deaths clan and we make sure its crest looks nothing like sb crest.
Imho I belive we would be better off in the long term by forming our own alliance and then activly recruit other clans. We would only need 1 clan to join us before we would have the numbers to start raiding on a semi regularly basis, and while we would grow more slowly, we would control the way we grow. I also belive we need the time to learn how to function as a clan properly.
If we were to join another alliance I would perfer to join a smaller alliance. With our clan size and lvls we would prob get more respect with in a smaller alliance then that of a bigger one.
Besides all the other advantages and disadvantages listed above in the above posts we should think about where we want to be in 6 months 12 months etc. By joining a large alliance I belive we would still be just an insignificant part it with little or no control over politics and direction.
Having said that I will suport the clan in its final dissision.
As for the names and such, we should first decide in we r forming or joining.
Own alliance: Basically we would have to get more proactive, and organised, and possibly have a few 'leaders' who will make decisions and play peacemaker also. The leader(s) would have to spend alot more time liasing with other clans/alliances and basically perfroming all the bs that comes with leading.
If another clan joins, then sb would have to take a leadership role, and help sort out any issues that arise due to another clan's actions(which we have little control over). Basically we would have to be prepared to be dragged into other ppl's battle's or make peace depending on the situation.
Join another alliance: This would be a simpler approach, but we do not have total self-determination. We would have to align ourselves with the new alliance and it's goals. We may be asked to do things we dislike.
We would have to organise ourselves mainly, while the alliance leaders i would think would generally steer the alliance to its goals.
Conclusion: Wether we join or make our own alliance, we will need to field numbers for any event, raid etc. I still think sb needs to recruit a little, and things will be much simpler once the level differences even out a bit.
I still cannot decide what path i would prefer we go down, i will talk it over with some people, and post again once i have thought about all considerations more.
I'd rather form our own alliance. I have no desire to be part of another american clan who hunts on american times so that I can miss american timed raids and be unable to attend american timed sieges. Been there, done it for years.
That said, I'll support whatever the clan decides wholeheartedly.
The good and bad things have been said in the other responses,but can i put a question in there and ask what was the clan started for,was it to join a big clan and lose our identity and basicly be a puppet to them to use as they will or where they will?
OR
WAs it to play the game and make our own decisons on where we go and what we do within the clan,to compete with the power houses and challenge them for there castles etc.
I think we can goit alone.(my first time be gentle ;)
i vote make our own aliiance talk to clans on around our same time zone there r lotsa small euro clans out there but yes we would nee to be proactive just what i think
What happens if one day we find our selves the owner of a castle:D That is all good :) ok now comes siege time and they scedule our seige on sunday, Monday our time, we all at work :( cant defend castle :(
Or do they scedule sieges around the clan that owns them?
Quote from Magrath: Ok this is way in the future :)
What happens if one day we find our selves the owner of a castle:D That is all good :) ok now comes siege time and they scedule our seige on sunday, Monday our time, we all at work :( cant defend castle :(
Or do they scedule sieges around the clan that owns them?
Just a thought I had.
I thought castle owners scheduled sieges, but had a limited choice of timeslots.
It seems more people are leaning towards making our own alliance.
ok seems most people want to make their own alliance pls note allying with alt caln should NOT be an option we need more numbers not more alts...
Also recruitment what ar the officers doing to get our numbers up ?. We dont have enough people to form our own alliance or raid for that matter at this point in time whether it be due to level or people not showing up or people thinking they are too low.
If you want to form an alliance with just us where we call the shots then quite frankly we need to see more leadership involment in politics of the server.
Option B join an alliance. In this option you become part of (hopefully) a larger group of like minded people. As elly said ferst has an Aussie clan and realistically we need every aussie on this server to realise there is another real option apart from fa dread etc... who are yanks
I would support either option as long as if we do decide to make a self alliance its not just so people can talk to people in main clan when playing their alts. That is a waste!
If we do join another alliance who do we join? redeamer in dread???? dont think so.. FA /SC etc..... you've got to be kidding UA definately a possibility 9th circle .... unlikely they seem to be griefing more and more
final option is forming a new alliance that includes other non aligned clans
There are a lot more clans who are quiet acheivers and far more inwardly focused atm than the list which you mention Spear. Those are just the "Orphus Warrior" clans. I've been chatting to a couple of mates of mine in Vonkilla Alliance who own Innadril. They even boast an RP clan in their alliance if that bangs your drum. Lots and lots of options out there. But before we inivite folks into our house, let us first do some spring cleaning.
Do name suggestions in the other thread i just made :)
Some comments .
Elly -> Spring cleaning? Do you mean finish booting the afk'ers etc or mean get our procedures into place for dealing with a recruitment drive? or all of the above?
Spear -> You make some good points about why you dont want the sub to join but i think the positives outweight it, alliance buffs from overlords in mixed partys, the social aspect of being on alts and still in contact with the main clan, and the possiblity of signing up other smaller clans may be a path worth travelling. At worst we can disband the alliance if we choose to join another alliance.
We should move if possible some of the absent members to the 2nd clan or the more infrequent players. ie Pritt etc
The structure of how we do this will be important as Elly and Spear stated so we have room to recruit when ready without booting alts or messing around.
Quote: Elly -> Spring cleaning? Do you mean finish booting the afk'ers etc or mean get our procedures into place for dealing with a recruitment drive? or all of the above?