Alliance Offer - Discussion

Endless Pariah have been talking to Elly about a possible alliance.

They are a clan lead by aussies trying to become the third side on the server.
THey are a lot high than us, most of them are 70+ and are willing to help us along.
However we would be the junior member, we have numbers on them but not levels, experience and knowledge of the game.

What i think they will require from us is help on Raids, Sieges and PVP.

I'm all for it, im sick of alts and rerolls, I want to get into some high level game content such as sieging.

But on the flip side it means becoming political, which may have some consequences.

I think Endless Pariah's two main enemies are IC, who are the whole servers enemies and they would grief us if they saw us anyway.

And I think they are having issues with Dread, who I dont respect that much tbh.

Give me your thoughts on this guys, whether you think you are ready for it or the clan is, no wishy washy answers please.

wishy washy right here :cool:

If we ally and they call for help for PVP, who will show and who won't

Do you want to get into PVP, wars etc because it will happen guarenteed if we join these guys.

I'd be embarrased if they asked for help in a PVP fight and 4 out of 20 connections show up

I'd rather not be embarrassed so I need to know how you guys view these things.

I

/hikes up her skirt (showing her sexy legs) running away shouting, "the big boys willk protect me".

OMG HES FINALY GONE OVER... hes a she

bad mog bad

i dont mind pvp to help them but id like to no if we would get any say as to who we end up fighting we could end up fighting ppl we know and like and there arnt to many of those on kain

Hmmm 70+'S need our help in a PvP fight.

Not sure how much help we would be.

Last night a couple of us were humbled. Mag, Sin and myself decided to jump a lvl 70+ in the arena, 4.5 seconds later Mag, Sin and myself lay dead on the cold damp grass of the arena.

But I would answer the call to death..er battle :)

+ the prospect to siege sounds awsome as there would have to be someone there I could kill :)

it wasn't 4.5 seconds, more like 5 to 6 seconds :D . Was bloody fantastic.

Like esty said not sure how much use we'd be, cannon fodder any one :), But yes I'd show :)

There'd be some sort of "rules of engagement" and it would probably be for sieges not to PvP for PvP's sake.
In a siege is really about group PvP, and that is a diff kettle of fish from one on one posturing. Its a known fact that L2 is not balanced for 1v1.
However, a well coordinated group can easily take down a lv 75 individual, infact we do it all the time when we XP on a red mob...

The cons are that there will be a likelyhood of a siege call out (if you consider siege PvP a con, I personally don't). You may also get involved in a War, but that, believe it or not, is safer than normal ganking, hence so many ppl are at war. You only lose 1% on death and there is no chance of dropping gear on death from a person you are Warring. The danger was always from outside interference which act within the full spectrum of the game.
You may and likely will be attacked by IC and their allies once they work out that we are aligned with EP.

The pro's are 18 or so more ppl to group and chat with,
They're happy to assist those who are grinding A grade mats and can benefit from their centralised clan system (I don't know the specifics, all I know is that its a centralised system).
They probably have a reasonable bulk of B grade which they may be willing to sell cheaper to those that still need that.
We will finally get to raid and have a decent shot at most if not all the std raid bosses. Once we get a group to 65 then with 3 groups of 65+ we stand a very good chance of winning against Anakim or Lillith in Disciples Necro. This means SA's for A grade weapons...
We won't challenge Baium or Zaken till we get more ppl to 65+ as those guys require a bit more strategy to take down, and Baium needs a keying quest to open his doors.
Antharas is still shrouded in mystery but I reckon that his time is coming soon and once ppl are knocking on 61+ then we should organise some clan questing to get the key to his lair.

Other than that it will be more aussies carrying on in our particular manner. More XP groupping opportunities, etc etc. One of the advantages of them being 70+ and infact a lot are 75 is that they have now begun to subclass down to 40. So there is some scope for some of the lower level guys to get onto a fast levelling bus if you know what I mean.

I think overall it will be a more positive experience. There are always growning pains with all mergers of this nature but I'm sure we can apply some common sense to these things and find a way to get ahead.

Yeah it sounds good :).
Just on question will we disbaning our alliance and joining theirs or will they be joing ours, Makes no Diffrence just interested :)

are there any fees any other requirements they have?

im happy to join but i would like to see some nuts and bolts of the allaince.

They are the details to be worked out.

Prob the only fee's invovled would be for sieging and flags

No there are no fees, and we have an opportunity to come in with some options.
Not sure about how alliances work, dunno if you can have multiple alliances.
Based on our numbers we are if nothing else an equal partner, remember the level gap is only temporary.

From my (albeit limited) understanding, this might be a real benefit to the 60s and high 50s but probably nothing more than a hindrance to the lower folks (myself included). In PvP terms, we are just going to be griefed (really) and I imagine our siege contribution would be minimal (against 60+s).

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to level up in peace than get griefed by high levels where I'm really powerless to do anything.

This is a possibility, an idea to alleviate this is perhaps our lower level guys can join deathfyres clan temporarily until they hit 52 or whenever they want to join the main clan is ok.

Only problem is screamingbucketz will probably be associated with screamingbuckets but at least there wont be an aliiance tag which will fool most ppl.

Vilyna your point is what i'm most worried about.

But I think of it this way.

These guys are trying to be a 3rd side so neutral to most, they are friendlier with the 'dark' side of the server so the greifers will leave us along.
Most enemies they will make won't be in our timezone.
If we war, then any individual member has an option to yield out of it.
Also their alliance is going to be quite large soon

Basically I don't see it happening that much vilyna but if it does we would have to look at whether its worthwhile

I like the idea of keeping the alt clan for lower levels but yes unfortunately it's name is pretty close. At least the clan symbol is totally different though. I don't want to advocate restricting those seeking siege/PvP/alliance benefits.

I understand completely, i'm reading their boards atm and they seem to have minimal troubles but there are some don't get me wrong.

By joining a side, even a neutral one, politics will start involving us, the challenge for me and Elly is to work a way so our lower levels don't bear the brunt of higher level decision. :)

Quote:

From my (albeit limited) understanding, this might be a real benefit to the 60s and high 50s but probably nothing more than a hindrance to the lower folks (myself included). In PvP terms, we are just going to be griefed (really) and I imagine our siege contribution would be minimal (against 60+s).

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to level up in peace than get griefed by high levels where I'm really powerless to do anything.

If we war the last thing you want is to opt out.

In a War all siege rules apply, that is only 1% XP loss per death as opposed to 5-6% normally, can't drop gear as opposed to some nebulous chance to drop gear. So yes if we war you want to make sure that you ARE signed up!.
I lost 20%XP in Fahrig's last war and boy was I glad that we were engaging the enemy under those rules...

However, your question is valid and my answer to you Vil is this.

What guarantee do you have that one of the high level players in our clan won't start a shitfight over the narrowing XP areas in the game with another clan instantly propelling you into uncontrolled PvP?

I put it to you that the same guarantees will exist whether you are in an alliance or not, albeit with a greater degree of risk as we do not have direct controll over the decision making process. We do however have some input into it and there will be options.

Turning up to a siege can only occur as one of 2 options - joining the defenders or attackers. Regardless of which one you chose the other will mark you as their enemy.

It is certainly possible that we can join Revolutions, with the caveat that we will not attend sieges and turn up only for raids.
I do not know what their answer will be to this and so I will go away and get an answer on that for us all.

The final issue you raise is the one that concerns me most. The "Me" or "I" statement as the definitve for any proposed action/direction.

We need to stop thinking of the clan, as a conveniance store. Ie I browse here on a daily/weekly basis with the option to buy something.
Levelling a character is only a valid reason as long as there is something to do with it once you have arrived at that juncure. If you view your progression only from the point of view of the XP group, then why join a clan ? If you can sustain yourself happily to some self defined point, even better, but what then ?

I put it to you that life is not as black and white as we'd like to have it. There are numerous opportunities and decisions which you will have before you as you level up.

The ubiquitous feature amongst them is that of risk.

And when talking risk in this context we have to ask ourselves, what are we as individuals prepared to risk for one another and for the clan as a whole?

So whilst I understand when you say that this will be a hindrance to you, it is equally true to say that, why should we not ally which gives us opportunities to Raid, Siege, access to more high end materials and resources (due to the other clans higher levels) just because it makes a few of the lower level guys uncomfortable.

There is no certainty that you will be PvPd/Griefed more. There is just an intangible perception of this happening.

There is however the fact that one day you WILL be at the same juncture and the question is what will you say then ?

Will it be ok to do all these things in 3 months time when you feel you have sufficently levelled ? And how will you respond to those that pose the same question to you, as that which you pose to us today?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not having a go at you I am merely using your post to illustrate the fact that this is all simply an issue of inward perception as opposed to an outward and clan opportunity/potential and growth based perception which is what is required to get ahead in L2. Its not a good or bad thing but its an issue to be discussed with an open mind.

I certainly hope that before any decisions are pushed through, we debate this as we have been till everyone has aired their concerns and that those who are driving the process provide them with answers that they can accept if not necessarily agree with.

I think this is the main concern here and it is valid.

What we can promise here is this.

If it happens, lower levels get pk'ed. We will:

a) come with force if a reasonable chance of winning or making a point.
b) come with 100% res scrolls or a level 60+ bish to res you ASAP
c) come and help you get that xp back.

I personally will promise all 3 if i'm online. Other clannies feel the same way.

Here here :)

anda looks around no one sore him he does a runner :)