Programing languages

Whats a good language to learn as a first timer? i was thinking htlm or c++

Visual Basic is good for beginners.

you can actully get alot of money doing visual basic belive it or not, my mate got rich doing that in newcastle

c++ not a good first choice. html isn't really a programming language at all. imo, learn pascal. worked for me.

Yeah... go C++

back it up with SQL

upgrade to java and get a five digit income after taxes

Java's an upgrade from C++? O.o

Not sure if C/C++ would be good for you if you've never programmed before, but saying that if you start with it most other languages are easy to grasp. If your serious about learning then go get someone to teach ya (night class, friend, homeless ex-programmer), cause learning to code from books is like pulling teeth.

Seriously, I found VB6 the easiest to learn language because it reads logically like broken english and is pretty easy to debug.

yeah, im not looking for easy (....i think i will regret this), im looking for a good platform to work from.
are there programming night classes?? last time i checked it was just shit like learn to use word

I *think* there was a programming night class at CSC? It was a while ago tho, but you never know. Night classes are great imho too.
And if you get anywhere with C++ gimmie a yell. Im always looking to hire more C programmers.

nope, just looked. no programming. although there are classics such as "learn to burn a DVD/CD" "How to buy and sell on ebay"
i guess its going to have to be by book

books are all well and good for giving you a small overview of the language, and to hand hold you through examples, but you wont really get a grasp of the language that way, you need to have something concrete in your mind that you want to do, and then look for ways of accomplishing that, or trying to work out how to use the basic methods introduced to accomplish it.

C is a pretty handy one to pick up, and there are tons of free compilers and the like available for it. If you use, or intend to use linux, then choosing C is a no brainer really.

C++ ? it's a bit of a syntactical cluster****, i'd probably go so far as to say you probably shouldn't do this first because it'll likely turn you off it completely.

Want something new, and one of the emerging fads/trends? Give python a whirl, by all reports its very easy to pick up, while still being quite powerful.

Want to stick to windows? C# is probably the place to start, or VB.

perl is good fun too :)

edit:

forgot to mention java, while i dislike applets, i'm finally convinced (thanks to azureus) that it's possible to make applications in java that have a decent, attractive and responsive UI.

also as overg mentioned, do yourself a favour and try and pick up SQL too. it's dead easy to get at least a working knowledge of, and incredibly useful.

edit 2:

it's probably also important to point out a slight difference between 'just a language', eg C, and a platform, such as java and c#, with just the language, you have a very basic set of tools available to you to accomplish stuff, and with the platforms, a LOT more is provided for you, and it doesn't take as much 'work' to accomplish the same stuff.

Diploma of IT at CDU/NTU ( whatever it is called now) does a whole semester in VB - I passed and I knew ( still know) nothing about it - ( helps to have a good teacher though). But may not be what you are looking for

DO NOT do the IT course at CDU. That said i started with VB (don't remember much about it now and only learnt really basic stuff) and pretty much moved on to java which seems simple enough to learn.

Have a look into online courses if learning from a book isn't your thing and like paladin said set a goal to accomplish then learn whats needed to learn.

You can learn a programming language from a book. In fact, if you want to be a programmer, you'll discover that's how most programmers do it.

Most mainstream languages are related. Grasp the basic principles of one and you're halfway to understanding the next one.

However, learning a new programming language isn't the end of your computer science journey. Any programmer worth their salt has a basic knowledge of computer science: why doing some things in certain ways is downright stupid. The alternative is doing the stupid things by accident.

I'd also avoid languages such as C and C++ for the moment. Start with Java or Python: they are very well documented and insulate you from some of the trickier aspects of underlying hardware. However it will be wise at some point to learn them, and some assembler, so you can understand how your code goes from programming language X to machine instructions Y.

In fact, just muck around. Learn basic. Learn python. Write little doodads and kerjiggers. Fiddle. Play. Then if you still want to do it, enrol in a serious computer science course.

Make sure you work hard on your maths. You'll need it.

what level maths is required? (in ssabsa terms)

Just the basic PES maths, unless you want to do what I'm doing which is an absolute brain-**** but you don't go the brain-dead computer science geek.

Although what pala said is quite true. I started with pascal myself to just learn concepts - was pretty simplistic but concepts were easily understood and transfered to all languages, but now I can hold my own with C/C++/C#(being the industry language now with around 90% usage)/php/thehotsisterlanguage/etc but not being CS I don't program like a nut.

Whenever the math got too much I just use to write a function to take care of it for me :p

In an IT course discrete mathematics is all ya need, I bet a computer science course needs a harder one though.

thought this might help its a C++ string reference

http://www.hig.no/imt/index.php?id=659

Quote from Tachi:
In an IT course discrete mathematics is all ya need, I bet a computer science course needs a harder one though.

Discrete maths is the centre point of computer science, but a lot of the interesting applications also need calculus and linear algebra.

Essentially: if you want to do computer science at a serious university, do the hardest maths you can. Drill it. You won't need it in day to day work, but you will develop an instinct for which solutions are neat and efficient, and which solutions are hideous monsters.

Quote from shifty:
thought this might help its a C++ string reference

http://www.hig.no/imt/index.php?id=659

Another good reference for C++ (if you can get it) is the MSDN, provided your coding with Visual Studio.

MSDN doco is pretty damn good and easy to navigate actually, but be aware it's all targetted at windows development.

May i ask the first couple of simple questions?
What is your objective?
Are you doing this as a hobbie or out of intrest?
Do you want to become a Game developer?
Do you want to write software?

C++ is a language mainly suited to software developers WHO know what they're doing. Its not a very elegant language for first timers, alot of the concepts to learn are just too much when added in with the inflexability and syntax of the language.

Java is a good start because it hides and encapsolates alot of the down dirty hardware input and output for you. You can focus on learning the main core concepts of object orintated programing. After that data structures and all the rest.

When your happy and learnt all you can from java and have made acouple of applications. Then start on C++, NOT C. Although alot of conventions of C++ are rooted in C. The trouble is, if you become used to C conventions and syntax than your going to carry those accross over to C++ and this makes for some messy code.

Game development?
One word, you aint going to do jack shit unless you have your matrix, trignometry, leaner algebra, mathimatics down pat with ANY programing langauge!

Physics, vecotrs ect.... all rely on mathimatic proofs and theorys turned into practic. No matter what programing language you choose, if you dont have you mathimatcs down pat you wont be effective in any language.

Speaking of which, was trying to write a program - spent last evening and this morning trying to figure out why the program would have an unhandled exception error raaa raaa every time I'd try and do something with my public variables in a class object I've made.

Been a couple years since I did C# last, been doing C++ and C more often.

Spot my brain bashing mistake on declaring a new object in C#
public Song hoohaa;

The above is the shit I hate about going between languages ><

The example bellow gives a very good reason why to avoid C++ until you can understand what heap memory is, stack memory, references are, garbadge collection, global data.

When writing software you will be confrunted with code like this. I have, not my own through.

I havent even touched into templates, and template meta programing.

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <io.h>
#define l33t 0

#if l33t
#define stupid(name,a,b,c) \
class name { \
public: \
int a; \
int b; \
int c; \
};
#else
#define stupid(name,a,b,c) \
struct name { \
public: \
int a; \
int b; \
int c; \
};
#endif

stupid(global_space, var_one, var_two, var_three );

// declare object on global space
global_space g_space;

// declare pointer on global space pointing to object on heap
global_space * g_ptr = new global_space();

// OH ****, declare a void type pointing to g_space
void * void_ptr = &g_space;

// Convert void_ptr to int pointer
int * int_ptr = (int *) void_ptr;

int main() {

stupid(class_name, var_one, var_two, var_three);

// Declare object on the stack
class_name define_class;

// Declare object on the heap
class_name * define_heap = new class_name();

define_class.var_one = 33;
printf( "%d \n", define_class.var_one );

return 1;
}

That is the exact reason I stopped pursuing anything programming related beyond VB. I don't have the patience for that shit :-/

see previous post about c++ being a syntactical cluster****.

also, examples are often more beneficial if they have a point, or actually do something.

Quote from chad:

When writing software you will be confrunted with code like this. I have, not my own through.

Its even better when you get a complicated little bit of code and all the comments are in another language. :P

most chad comments ARE another language, so you may have a point there.

I have no idea what any of that coding is meant to do.
But i laughed at that last post. I actually havent stopped laughing, truth be told.

i mainly want to do this as a hobby. I would just like a basic understanding and just for mucking around with it. I dont think i want to actually go into a career with it but this comes as a completly uninformed decision.
ive decided to just play around with VB (.....both sorts :P) and just take it from there. thanks guys

vb is cool, fun and easy to use :D

its not used that much theses days but i reckon its one of the best languages to write with out there

I hated VB when I worked with it... It just seemed to lack a certain oomph and now that I'm learning C as part of my Robotics Engineering course I'm loving it...

http://haxe.org/

C ftw but it's a memoryhandling****nightmare

While I'm here. VS2005 rocks. So does free full Legal Microsoft software!

Quote from Mordin:
Java's an upgrade from C++? O.o

Not sure if C/C++ would be good for you if you've never programmed before, but saying that if you start with it most other languages are easy to grasp. If your serious about learning then go get someone to teach ya (night class, friend, homeless ex-programmer), cause learning to code from books is like pulling teeth.

C/C++ is a good platform to learn the concepts of programming. Later on, you learn algorithms and data structures; then you go on to combine them and learn object oriented programming concepts.

Of course if you're a whiz, you can always learn Java and as I said, get a six digit income (its because of the trend and some hype). But even java has its limitations. It won't run outside JRE (Java Runtime Engine) so if there's no JRE specific to the machine (eg. PlayStation, XBOX, Nintendo, etc) don't count on your code to run on it. Now C/C++ isn't that glamorous either when it comes to portability. However, it's been the language most game developer use.

A programming language is just a method of making humans communicate logic to the electronic machine. A system of arranging instructions to get a task done. As for documentation, there's tons of it around. The big job that discourages most people is sorting out which of the documentation is the right one.

It really depends what your goal is or what your intrests are.

I think for web development perl and php are very mainstream and learning SQL are they ways to go, also there are web pages that are written in bash scripting as well.

For general programs there are alot of directions to take, but perl is good because its easier to learn than C and C++ and it can create binary programs, have a gui and work with webpages.

Again the one question remains what are you intrested in.

Cheers
Rip

If you're interested in coding games, check out BlitzBasic.
It's a compiling BASIC language which can do DirectX and OpenGL stuff..

Latest version is BlitzMax, which runs on PC & Mac, but at the moment can only do 2D (unless you know how to do OpenGL stuff yourself).. Still, 2D games are teh best. :)
There's also an older version, Blitz3D, for PC only, which can do proper 3D.

Blitz is fast & flexible enough to do pro-ish stuff, if you put enough into it.. and easy enough to learn quickly and get straight onto game design instead of fighting with the code.
e.g. you don't have to worry about memory handling at all..

It's great for messing around makin' fun stuff, and learning the basics of how to structure a program etc :P

[edit]... oh, and for me at least, blitz is as satisfying to code in as C. it's a proper language, definately not an point-n-clik "sUpER GAMEZ MAKER!@!@!" type program....

Quote from OverG:
It won't run outside JRE (Java Runtime Engine) so if there's no JRE specific to the machine (eg. PlayStation, XBOX, Nintendo, etc) don't count on your code to run on it.

Nitpick: this isn't true. There are a number of compilers for Java which can compile to various underlying architectures.

But in general most platform games are written close to the metal. The most interesting I've ever heard of was that Crash Bandicoot was written in a Lisp variant.

I learned the most useless of languages VHDL and the sub branch of assembler used for program microcontrolers. I've also done alittle C and C++ (best place to start).