31 public posts in this discussion.
Looking good already.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/
A new PvP objective.. thingie... It'd be interesting to see the effects that this'll produce. (Epic guilds camping whole zones? :S)
And cross realm BG's. Sounds interesting.
edit: Oh yeah, and pray that the rogue talent review = nerf :p
rogue talent review currently looks secksy
woot. more fun in the pvp realm :)
cool, hope to see more :)
AP boost for Hemo rogues.
Warriors 'might' have somethign to worry about.
Yay for rogue buffs :p
Wait...there are hemo rogues? o_0
There will be after the patch :p
Hemo Stunlock rogues will be plentiful Id imagine.
Heres the talent review preview btw -
Quote from paladin:
rogue talent review currently looks secksy
Looks like shit. Subelty will be still a shit tree with one useful talent.
That attack power bonus. Tasty.
Still dont like how us backstab rogues have to split heavy into all three trees to get the maximum BS output =(
they should be no reveiws well druid skills dont even work.
not a happy kitty :(
Quote from paladin:
rogue talent review currently looks secksy
Nope not really, it's called lubing for an arse raping. :(
wow dueling rogues is going to be like anal with no lube
Quote from selpa:
wow dueling rogues is going to be like anal with no lube
And this is how we spot nubs. :P
People are crying over nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change really against rogues.
The biggest things to come out of this review (based solely on that preview post by the bliizard cm) -
Vanish removing Hunters Mark etc, & improved sprint.
They are the two really big things, however thats ****ing useless in pve.
haha, no more chasing after people while you're stealthed, looking like you need to take a shit.
Now we get to look like Carl Johnson hyped on meth running with knives.
[Image: http://usuarios.lycos.es/doblesentido/images/gtaSA.jpg]
^ This carl johnson. If you've see him running you'll understand.
Oh yes we love the anal.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogues2/talents.html
BTW the Hunters Mark thing is being looked into because the tooltip on Hunters Mark says:
"Places the Hunter's Mark on the target, increasing the Ranged Attack Power of all attackers against that target by 110. In addition, the target of this ability can always be seen by the hunter whether it stealths or turns invisible. The target also appears on the mini-map. Lasts for 2 min."
hunters mark just needs to go away when the hunter dies.
Sunova bitch!
Quote:
Vanish will now remove effects that allow the caster to remain aware of the rogues presence, such as Mind Vision and Hunters Mark.
Guess the minute they vanish Flare will come in handy
Any hunter that relies on hunter's mark is an absolute nub.
Quote from Jay:
Any hunter that relies on hunter's mark is an absolute nub.
True, I often forget to Mark rogues and still give them the beatdown. Once I get off a scattershot its all over.
To put it straight forward while every other class was crying nerf rogues before the talents had even come out, Im there in the backgrounds quietly crying myself to sleep every night. I knew this was going to be one of the most overlooked class reviews, even though we had a fairly solid build structure before all the nagging issues are still going to be there.
Every build pretty much still has to take 16 points into assassination to maintain equal footing in damage.
Overall all 3 of the damage buff talents for every tree are so high up in the trees that no build is able to take both at the same time. Rather than allow rogues to be more free with talents we now end up with more restrictions.
The new poisons talent is a okay-ish reduction of talents compiling them together, combined with a chance for poisons to resist removal + the latest deadly poisons, the review screams at a vague attempt of Blizzard trying to get rogues to us e deadly poisons. Get ****ed we reply. Keep in mind though about 8-20% (from my own recap logs with BF set bonus no poison talent) of a rogue's damage is instant poison damage (assuming instant poison), so more rogues though are going to take up this talent if they are going up for vigor and the improved kidney shot. Chance to resist dispel is quite a bit of a talentsink for pvp, very situational but at 40% resist for 5points you'd better hope it's decent because points aren't getting any easier to move around.
The improved Kidney shot is going to be fairly decent for hemo and vigor rogues for pvp. Useless in pve raiding.
For hemo builds which seems to be the latest trend again, they have received a buff in the subtelty tree which is the Deadliness talent. This will help hemo rogues a lot with full 5/5 Deadliness for general pve damage as the problem was there was no real variant for pve that would be useful for raiding. Hemo has the debuff which is +210 damage every hit for the entire raid as a whole, but the lack of damage talents in other trees meant that the +210 was useless for raiding as the rogue dealing the debuff was losing that much damage from a lack of talents. This should improve the hemo viability for raiding.
Combat rogues - dagger or sword are going to be the same essentially. 18/33 or whatever gentle customisation they pick to get more defensive (such as dodge) or offensive (eg imp evisc). In the combat tree we get +weapon skill which is going to increase a combat rogue's damage a good amount but it's still linear damage progression compared to rage generation. Nothing new really, just business as usual. The run talent will help combat rogues get a bit more pvp out if they're going up into the combat tree anyway.
Combat daggers have probably taken one of the worst beatings as they are generally stuck with 16 points in assassination, but they are still stuck with 10 points into subtelty which leaves them with just enough points to get dagger spec. To get the new talent (weapon skill) in combat however it means these rogues are going to have to start making decisions to start sacrificing dodge, damage from assassination(such as relentless strikes) or god forbid some of Opportunity .
Heightened senses is the talent that all the mages and hunters were crying about. 4% dodge to ranged. Whoopdeee****en doo. Unless it adds on to our existing dodge, nothing's going to change and I don't think anyone's going to care.
In the end you're going to find in pvp that the pvp build rogues are going to be better at pvp, and the pve rogues are going to be better at pve. The middle line is going to be at the same point with decent pve damage and decent pvp'pwnage.
They have still neglected all the bugs from all things I have seen. Sword spec still resets the main hand swing rather than give a true extra swing. Vanish is still going to be breakable by dots and damage. Ranged are still going to go town on us. Warriors are still going to overpower us (nerf overpower or at least let us dodge it). Mages are still going to frost nova and kite. Hunters are still going to serpent sting, flare and feign death/trap. Paladins are just going to bubble hearth in a fit of laughter. Shamans are still going to FROST SHOCK. Warlocks will need a 40man raid to take down.
Going from the talents released so far, I hope it's not all that's in store for us. There better be some gameplay changes or you're all going to see a lack of rogues come next patch and a wave of new priests and fury warriors.
In hindsight it seems they're trying to gear rogues up for better world pvp to go along with 1.12 "world pvp". So we're going to be hated just as much or even so. People will not forget about that aspect of rogues, and continue to ignore our pve and locked-in talent restrictions, let alone damage scalability on finishing moves.
This was a poorly and badly proof-read rogue summarisation and analysis by Jort.
edit: I forgot to mention. We are still reliant on cooldowns and reagents. ffs.
edit2: for pvp.
edit3: So many talents just feel like they are in the wrong places. Improved feint is hardly needed down the subtelty tree in terms of gameplay.
edit4: 10% AP doesn't compare to a hunter's 15agi(1agi = 2RAP;52agi=1%crit) or a pallies 10% str (1str = 2AP). However I think the balance of this is because of the crit rate of rogues. However rogues going that far down the subtelty are missing out on a number of things.
Gankers paradise it seems, improves the tree all the players whinged about while ignoring the tree that the people that play rogues whinge about :)
As a holy priests now, incapable of defending myself against an angry chicken...its gonna hurt :)
edit5: We have been ignored on our another of our primary concerns which I neglected to mention. Raidability. Warriors are still going to bring more to the part and do just as much damage. We would have been content doing more damage but this really is going to be left to be seen to be believed after 1.12. I wouldn't even have minded getting a new talent called "The Kevin Costner" - You take 100% damage of the next critical hit to hit a party member.
lmao @ Kevin Costner.
Well, I will wait to see how it fairs. The new rogue talents aren't up on Test realms for preview as yet =(
I like Jays review on how each class will beat rogues but no druid was mentioned obviously we aren't a danger to rogues :(
Druids always were and always will be a problem for rogues.
The only time a druid will die every time to a rogue, is if they're caught in caster form.
A smart druid will convert straight to bear form Vs a rogue and proceede to negate his damage while regenning hp =p
Gear dependant, of course.
I dont think there's a class out there that doesnt wtfpwn rogues these days :)
Holy Priests :)
I dunno, I got my ass handed to me by a holy priest the other day =(
I couldnt do enough damage through his shield and when i did, i had to combat his heals =(
Mind you, thats without me using any poisons at all.
Theres ways around every class tho. I just feel the pinch more as i play a rogue =p
rogues with crippling poison means deaht to holy priests. or at least it should