I'm 23 and for the last 5 years I've been working in fast food. While it's a well paying job with some perks, I'd like to move on. I basically had no idea what I was doing back then and it's what I had at the time so I stuck with it. So as the days close for the SATAC test so I can get into Uni next semester I'm trying to figure out what to do. I figure I've wasted enough time already and I want to get on with it.
I was informed by my father today that there were IT Traineeships in the NTG that just closed which is a pain in the ass as that's probably exactly what I would have been looking for.
I've been searching all over far and wide and cannot find any entry level jobs or traineeships.
I've been infront of a computer since I was 2 or 3 years old so I'm no dummie but I obviously don't have any formal qualifications, or any experience in a corporate environment. I guess I'd probably be equiv to about a Cert 4 (gee should have finished that one when I had the chance..) and could pick up Diploma level stuff quite easily. Hope you understand what I mean.. I don't mean to overstate myself. I'm sure that there are heaps of similar people around like this.
So anyway I'm looking for some opinions on the best course of action here.
SATAC -> Batch IT @ CDU - is it really worth 3 years of my time and to run up FEE-HELP debt? Do Cert 4 / Dipl & keep an eye out? Some kind of non existent traineeship? Some entry level job that I just magically get with no quals? Something else?
I also have a mortgage to pay for which I don't really want to give up so getting paid isn't such a bad thing but obviously if I were going to Uni I could stay at my job casual or find part time work elsewhere.
I have no qualifications at all but I know WTF I'm doing and have a lot of hands on experience with computers. I currently work as a computer tech and while not a high paying job, I couldn't possibly be happier at work as far as job satisfaction goes.
If you wanted to get into more business oriented IT like a companies tech support or start your own business, it would be good to have some basic qualifications there.
If its something like programming, systems analysis, database design/management then University is probably the place to go.
If you want to head down the path of systems/hardware/network engineer then I wouldn't waste time at uni, those 3+ years are better spent in the work place. I would aim for the following:
1. work experience (for free if you have to) 2. work experience (for free if you have to) 3. possibly a tafe cert but that could be argued as a complete waste of time 4. if its networking youre interested in? get the CCNA. Windows systems? get the MCSE. Linux? get some sort of linux cert.
A job in the systems/networking field will come if you have a relevant industry certification, experience and the right attitude. The more experience (and to a lesser degree, certifications) you have, the more you get paid.
Also, avoid a call centre type job, get some experience that is actually relevant to the path you want to move in.
What they said, but if you do plan on going to uni try to avoid IT at CDU, unless something has changed since I was there (a couple years ago) and while some subjects were good/decent half the others were a joke.
I'm kinda in a similar position only difference I almost have a full degree completed, tried getting some non graduate type jobs throughout the year and they really wanted people with more actual experience then study :(. I guess it didn't help with a full study load and not actually having the degree completed yet.
You could try study online with another uni, or do a couple subjects online then use those to get entry to its campus course if you have trouble getting into uni.
experience trumps paper any day... getting that can be a pain though, one thing to do, scour the tech areas of forums like this one, amongst the usual insults you'll find hidden gems of info that can come back to save your arse down the track in many fields :)
Agreed with Aegis - a good chunk of my problem solving power comes from Google and learning quickly what does/doesnt apply. You pick up some seriously awesome global fixes along the way and after a while what was previously 5 hours of trying this, repairing, scanning, blah blah becomes 5minutes, a small patch and a reboot.
In the Tech field there is practically nothing of any real use that can be taught from a book or in a classroom - it's shit you have to learn yourself or find yourself. Sure, do some TAFE courses along the way if you want, but ultimately its just a piece of pretty paper if you plan to stay in the tech world.
Having a MCSE won't help you worth a damn trying to rebuild data from a drive with bad sectors or trying to recover a drive from a virus that corrupted the MFT. Having a Bachelor of IT wont be worth squat when you need to diagnose hardware problems that are sparse and random and cant be replicated on demand.
Best way to learn is to play with it yourself. The great thing about computers is what applies to one thing generally applies to another thing so the more you learn the easier it is to learn more. A good starting place, as others have said, is Work Experience. Call around the tech places and offer your services for free to get experience.
Any employer, when faced with a choice between someone who has a uni degree but has never seen the inside of a computer or someone who has never been to uni but can build and diagnose a computer in their sleep, will always choose the latter.
If you want to get into the Service side of the industry (Field tech. Repairs, Customer Rep), your hands-on experience will be far more valuable than paper qualifications, unless applying for an administrative position.
If you're able to land a Traineeship, then you're golden. Especially with the NTG.
If there is one thing I can request and advise of you. Do NOT get a job in a service desk. Don't don't don't don't don't don't. It will kill all enthusiasm you will ever have for the IT industry. On the bright side, it will really open your eyes to the level of stupid contained within our society.
Quote from Wrathlon;330784: Agreed with Aegis - a good chunk of my problem solving power comes from Google and learning quickly what does/doesnt apply. You pick up some seriously awesome global fixes along the way and after a while what was previously 5 hours of trying this, repairing, scanning, blah blah becomes 5minutes, a small patch and a reboot.
In the Tech field there is practically nothing of any real use that can be taught from a book or in a classroom - it's shit you have to learn yourself or find yourself. Sure, do some TAFE courses along the way if you want, but ultimately its just a piece of pretty paper if you plan to stay in the tech world.
Having a MCSE won't help you worth a damn trying to rebuild data from a drive with bad sectors or trying to recover a drive from a virus that corrupted the MFT. Having a Bachelor of IT wont be worth squat when you need to diagnose hardware problems that are sparse and random and cant be replicated on demand.
Best way to learn is to play with it yourself. The great thing about computers is what applies to one thing generally applies to another thing so the more you learn the easier it is to learn more. A good starting place, as others have said, is Work Experience. Call around the tech places and offer your services for free to get experience.
Any employer, when faced with a choice between someone who has a uni degree but has never seen the inside of a computer or someone who has never been to uni but can build and diagnose a computer in their sleep, will always choose the latter.
Experience is definately the most important... however, if you want to be a sys or network admin for a large company and get paid lots of money you will almost always need some sort of certification. You will also notice a lot of jobs have it as a prerequisite. It gives them a benchmark for your knowledge and is an indicator of how much you *should* be paid.
Being a PC/hardware tech is definately experience based but servicing a corporate network will usually require some form of certification.
Yeah, Im just using the tech example as thats what I do and what I want to continue doing so thats where all my knowledge lies.
For SysAdmin jobs and corporate IT jobs you will probably need certain qualifications. If that's where your interest lies look around at what they are asking for and try and get the broadest ones first - ie the ones that everyone is asking for - then get the more specialised ones.
Quote from Milenko;330797:
If there is one thing I can request and advise of you. Do NOT get a job in a service desk. Don't don't don't don't don't don't. It will kill all enthusiasm you will ever have for the IT industry. On the bright side, it will really open your eyes to the level of stupid contained within our society.
Haha you aren't wrong. I mostly just repair peoples PC's that get brought back when they can't be fixed onsite by our mobile tech but help desk is a small part of my job. Holy. Shit. Just when you think people cant get any dumber someone raises the bar for stupidity. My more amusing/irritating examples have been:
*"Which one is the powercord?" - Hmm, maybe the one that runs to the f**king power point? Just a guess here.
*"My cup holder has broken" - Snapped her CD tray with her coffee.
*"Close all the windows" - This instruction was followed by 10mins of silence while she went around the house and closed windows.
*"Whats a computer? Is that the one with the like button and little light flashy things on it?" - Said by an Accountant who had been working on computers for 8 years whom I asked to bring her computer into our office as we couldn't fix it on site.
im desktop support for the CSG servicing the NTG i did cert 2 and 4 then moved onto a system builder then a repair tech then landed the job im in now. each time moved jobs i learnt heaps, im still learning heaps where i am and im glad i didnt do a degree at uni cause i feel asif i would be in unnecessary debt. but then again maybe i was just lucky as all of my jobs were landed based on who i knew not what i knew.
i might need some casual staff to join me on a project im working on in the next few months so ill keep you in the back of my mind.
I had no experience and now im a lead C/C++ programmer (still no formal qualifications) :P So you don't always need any experience at all (other then knowing how to use a computer), but finding a company that's willing to take you on might be hard in Darwin. The gov. usually requires some experience or study in the area of the job unless its a traineeship (or AO1 etc, but they aren't really IT jobs as such). Im doing my Bachelor of IT now through CSU, because for the very highest paying jobs you usually need the paperwork to back you up. I would not recommend CDU as a university if you can help it, but i would also not recommend distance education if your not very dedicated to do the work.
I say give small companies around a go and see what comes up
I've personally gone for smaller businesses that need an on site IT administrator to repair and manage the business, and I've gained allot skills and knowledge working with other it professionals and im so glad i only did a cert 4 and did not spend a fortune at university..
some of the best things you will learn in the IT industry are not from a classroom, but from the workplace and experience/endurance in the real world.
Make friends. Tell those friends you're looking for a job. I've been looking for nearly 2 weeks and already I've got a few contacts sending me info about upcoming jobs. I expect the members on GU would do the same. I don't want to go to uni, but like you I have plenty of experience with computers in my spare time. It also helps to put people you know on your resume and get them to either make something up about a professional relationship you had with them or exaggerate an existing story. E.g. my mum knows a lady who works at a big recruitment company, and I'm getting her to review a job application for me and she offered to go down as a reference, and HR people as a reference is a big selling point for possible employers. Also talk to people in the industry about what to say in your resume and things. The jobseek.com.au website has some good tips on what employers look for, how to write an appealing resume or statement and what each position involves.
Quote from Imitation;330765: So anyway I'm looking for some opinions on the best course of action here.
It depends mostly on what aspect of the field you want to get into. If it's maintenance and administration, then experience and industry certs are the way to go: you can buy old equipment off ebay to play with.
If it's programming, then you should go and get a degree in computer science or software engineering (from somewhere other than CDU), plus familiarise yourself with programming tools of trade -- revision control, a good editor and a good terminal are the most important.
Ill agree with most people - speically going on prevoius experiences - you dont necessarily need to go to uni to get a job in IT.
My job at Kormilda came down to me - actual helpdesk and pc experience vs uni grad...I got the job.
Like Milenko pointed out try not to get stuck in a positon that sucks arse. My stint at DCC in the helpdesk pleb position (3 yrs) lead me to become an apprentice electrician after 8 yrs in IT.
When you have either the opportunity or time try to get certs like MCSA or MCSE, RHCT, and /or CCNA - the exams are not cheap if you fail but they may help when you start getting more into the administrative / network building side of things. Unless of course you enjoy coding then its just a different kettle of fish.
Quote from Milenko;330797: If you want to get into the Service side of the industry (Field tech. Repairs, Customer Rep), your hands-on experience will be far more valuable than paper qualifications, unless applying for an administrative position.
If you're able to land a Traineeship, then you're golden. Especially with the NTG.
If there is one thing I can request and advise of you. Do NOT get a job in a service desk. Don't don't don't don't don't don't. It will kill all enthusiasm you will ever have for the IT industry. On the bright side, it will really open your eyes to the level of stupid contained within our society.
lenko's right about this part partially..... as long as you move off the phones within a year or so its all good.....
the service desk side of things is pretty fuken draining but once you get past that depending on the area you go to its actually quiet interesting....
i worked on the service desk with lenko for what like 18 months??? somethin like that... but now that im a team leader for that area im getting exposed to an entirely different area.... which im really enjoying...
and yeah if you do ever work for CSG or the NTG you will see a side of the government and the health department that you'll wish you hadn't... i no longer trust doctors coz i know they cant even follow simple instructions. (and im talking as simple as typing there OWN name)
Thanks for all the replies guys. It's great to get it from locals who are actually doing the work I'd like to do.
I would like to go into a maintenance / admin / network type role. I would like to be more hands on for sure.
I'm chasing up a traineeship at the moment - just submitted my application then. Found out I didn't have a copy of my resume and had to type one up from memory. Argh. Anyway I am reallllly keen.. I don't know how I can make myself more keen ;)
KNIGHT dont listen to korny, he is a ****wit me and many more people are happy with out jobs at CSG
yeh im sure all those Field service techs that didnt get the pay increase they deserved are really happy with there jobs or those people who are on a 2 month contract at a time are very happy with there job security.
CSG will use you up and spit you out.
but on a side note if you wanna do csg work but dont wanna work for them "BIZCOM" are looking for employee's :P you will have to move to Alice.
Qualifications are good if you want a high paying job but if you just happy to work in the industry most small companies up here don't give a shit about your qualifications as long as you actually know what you are doing.
But if you want to look into the future qualifictations are usually needed. otherwise you'll sit in the same position, while people WITH qualifications will surpass you.
If you are commited and still looking for a job come in and see the guys at Computers For You we are currently on the lookout for someone to fix PC's MUST BE RELIABLE!
Quote from r00t|{it;331693: If you are commited and still looking for a job come in and see the guys at Computers For You we are currently on the lookout for someone to fix PC's MUST BE RELIABLE!
Quote from r00t|{it;331693: If you are commited and still looking for a job come in and see the guys at Computers For You we are currently on the lookout for someone to fix PC's MUST BE RELIABLE!
Interested aswell. I finish up my current job this week and am looking.
(have NOT read any of the above posts, replying based on thread title only)
Keep an eye out for Charles Darwin Uni IT jobs, I should have advertisements up for two new desktop techs in the next month or so. I cannot stress enough that i cannot decide the fate of your job application, its decided by more than 3 people in unison. Supply a good resume, address all selection criteria on teh job advertisemnets, and be ready to actually sell yourself. Its a very hard job, very stressful, but it will get you in and give you a chance to expand and go somewhere if you are willing.
(looking back at that it seems like im doing the hard sell, but im not, just giving NT people and interstate interest a chance to get in)
haha EoS.. I did work experience (yr 10) at the NTU IT Dept. back in 99 I think.
What I can remember:
Some guy having naked girls as his screen saver and some (I think) 2nd in charge lady with blonde hair being unhappy. Some African sounding guy using VMWare.. we was cool. Didn't talk much which was good cause I didn't really understand his accent. Cool guy. Some guy called Prasad G.. who was looking after Networks. Two guys with their backs to each other using Linux.. basically watching videos and playing mp3's. Some helpdesk guy running all over the Uni trying to fix things with me tagging along.
Lots of office politics and: 'oh the work experience kid is standing next to us' *walk into office, shut door in work exp kids face* moments :D
Some cool points: The network monitor computer started howling - awesome.. everyone runs over to see what's going on. The ISDN link between campuses (IIRC could have been somewhere else) had gone down.. and we were off to investigate but it apparently came back up of its own accord. Lucky thing too since apparently they hadn't been charged by Telstra for quite some time for the lines so it was kind of 'ohhhh nooooo' 'woooo!'.
Some student losing all their work when a thin client running Win2k blue screened and the IT guy being like 'save your work yo!'
Wasn't really much to do I spent a lot of time surfing the net.
Quote from Bad Crispy;333487: congrats - now the fun begins ;)
Thanks mate. Not going to pay very well (50% pay cut) but I'll be more than happy with change in working hours alone.. that will make a world of difference to my life(style).
I did a school based apprenticeship at Editure/CSM. They lost the schools tender and when i finished the course they couldn't re hire me cos they lost the their major tender to the government to CSG.
That puts CSG in a good position in my opinion.
They wouldn't give me an apprenticeship cos their ass holes and don't want to help the younger community but thats their choice :) (not really)
I got one with TTS instead though, anything bad about them. Anyone here work there?
I did a school based apprenticeship at Editure/CSM. They lost the schools tender and when i finished the course they couldn't re hire me cos they lost the their major tender to the government to CSG.
That puts CSG in a good position in my opinion.
They wouldn't give me an apprenticeship cos their ass holes and don't want to help the younger community but thats their choice :) (not really)
I got one with TTS instead though, anything bad about them. Anyone here work there?
lol you will probably work under neotheo... hard miles ahead... be sure to get your car racing skills in order..
Lol graduate/traineeship @ NTG is a yawn. Prepare for many hours browsing the web and doing the secretarial services of the IT Managers. Well its all I seem to see the ones where I am doing!
And at the uni whilst offering seemingly good jobs their salaries appear to be out of touch with the rest of the IT industry?? Anyone??
i started as an apprentice at TTS, was alright, got better. Now im doing some fun stuff (im a ****en major nerd) and they throw the best Christmas Parties :)
Quote from neotheo;333683: i started as an apprentice at TTS, was alright, got better. Now im doing some fun stuff (im a ****en major nerd) and they throw the best Christmas Parties :)
As for Flatout2... HAHHA....good luck
its ok.. thats the only game he will beat you at :D