Quote: TWO passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on board the Air France flight that crashed in the Atlantic Ocean, killing all 228 on board, it has emerged.
French secret servicemen established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the doomed Airbus in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on May 31
...and the most interesting part.
Quote: Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections, Fox News reports.
Passengers on board crashed Air France flight had terror links | World News | News.com.au
Edit: The Fox News story was the first to post on Google News...
Cue the 'small explosive' story, just enough to bring the plane down whole.
It's certainly possible, but I wouldn't draw conclusions without the facts... Wait until we get enough wreckage to determine the cause or at least the data recorders.
There have been examples of sensors doing weird things on those models... particularly air speed sensors. There was something released by the manufacturer to counter this problem... I think the Qantas flight that dropped altitude big time a few months back was the same model.
Either way, whether it's terrorists or not - they'll carry on about it until it's perhaps absolutely proved otherwise... so it might as well have been terrorists as this is what will saturate the media...
Quote from Milenko;365882: Islamic passengers, they must be terrorists! Just the same as there were aussies; who must have been one nation supporters!
IT ALL MAKES SENSE.
C'mon mate that's a bit of a stretch. I understand what you're getting at but if Islamic extremists are consistently the culprits for terror acts then I have no problem with using racial profiling techniques and paying closer attention to them.
I'm with Irinaldi... religious extremists from that part of the world often condone and even encourage the type of violent acts we see and read about - that's just the reality of their faith in today's world.
At least fundamentalist Christians only go to extremities that involve hating gays and re-writing Bryan Adams lyrics to suit their brainwashing agendas at conventions. :P
I'm not saying this was a "terrorist" hijacking, though.
yeh christians are fine minus the... indian christians forcing people to convert and creating confict with other religions, the russian christians that murder people who are non believers, the US with the good ol' KKK, and lets not even go into ireland.
Anyone could have shoved a bomb on a plane, they dont even need a religous cause.
I wonder what the paedophilia rate between all the religion is? christians and catholics seem to rate high in australian media.
Quote from lrinaldi;365888: C'mon mate that's a bit of a stretch. I understand what you're getting at but if Islamic extremists are consistently the culprits for terror acts then I have no problem with using racial profiling techniques and paying closer attention to them.
It was tongue in cheek. But what you're talking about is a very dicey line to walk.
Both your attitudes are enough reason for extremists to continue hating us, if indeed your views are what represents us as a nation.
I am by no mean condoning terrorist attacks, but let's draw the line. What you're essentially saying is that if you look like an Arab, then we're going to suspect you of terrorism. Way to start a war people. You might as well join the Republicans and subscribe to Fox News.
You are discriminating, no matter which way you look at it. This creates a sturdy basis for hate. Is the fear instilled by the media getting to you people or something?
...or have I totally misread what people have said?
:o
Edit: I think comparing how different religions can incite violence may be futile. History has shown us that a lot of religions can do just that. In fact, if you look at the history books (ie. not just in our little lifetimes) I think you'll find that Christians are the clear winners. The funny thing is - going with the golden rule that the victor always writes history - Christians have probably written a lot of the history books!
By gods your right aegis! we need to build a 10m iron wall around Australia and tactically position some SAM sites around to shoot down any incoming space-faring redneck! Unfortunately we can't trust any plane from outside of australia so we need to shoot them down as well! To bad for all the oversea expats that are going to be locked out, we cant take the risk!
Then once we know we are safe from these space-faring redneck we slowing expand our iron curtain... and we all love lamb, we best if we start with new zealand.
they havent found it. The french have sent a sub or 2 to look for it.
French submarine begins Airbus black box search - Yahoo! News
Quote: Other causes have not been ruled out, but France's interior ministry said two passengers identified as suspicious turned out not to be a concern. The website of the French weekly L'Express had quoted a French military spokesman as saying they could have been linked to Islamic terrorism.
Space-faring rednecks maybe?
Quote: He said the Emeraude was searching an area of 36 square kilometers (14 sq miles) and the search zone would change daily. If the recorders are found, miniature submarines from the Pourquoi Pas, the French exploration and survey ship, could be used to retrieve them.
The doomed plane sent 24 automated messages in its final minutes on June 1, detailing a rapid series of systems failures.
The speed sensors that gauge how fast an aircraft is flying have become the focus of the investigation after some of the messages showed they provided inconsistent data to the pilots.
Air France said on the weekend it had noticed icing problems on the speed sensors known as pitot tubes in May 2008 and had asked Airbus for a solution. Airbus responded by reaffirming existing operating procedures, according to Air France, which decided to go ahead and change the sensors from April 27. The A330 that crashed had not yet been modified.
They have a transponder on it. It's far more robust then a GPS, and the signal is much easier to detect then a GPS signal on the box. Plus at 10,000 feet depth... Not much of a signal will be received. Bare in mind, that the unit doesn't send out a constant signal.
Quote from grandinferno;365899: What you're essentially saying is that if you look like an Arab, then we're going to suspect you of terrorism.
I'm not saying that - I don't want anybody being suspected of terrorism due to race. I'm just saying that there is factually more terrorist activity in that specific demographic. There is no opinion here.
How you take that fact and what is done with it is another matter entirely. Descrimination is certainly not something I condone, and shouldn't be a biproduct of that fact... unfortunately it often is.
Both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder will have a Underwarter Locating becon (ULB) attached to them securly. They are activated by G Shock switch or humidity (if under water they emit a beacon).
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_data_recorder]Flight data recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_voice_recorder]Cockpit voice recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
In thoes pictures the ULB is the little round cilidric things on the front.
Think about it like this... imagine you're in a room, you can't see anything, and you can only hear noise in mono. You can hear a beep in the distance. You need to narrow it down into a direction... Say you now have a tube, which you can use to gain an idea of direction by narrowing it down slowly.
Eventually you get close, but at the start it's a huge area you need to comb in order to pick anything up.
Now, imagine the room is say 200km's squared, under water (where the density causes the beacon sonar to condense more and change frequency) and you still only have a cardboard tube to listen through attached to an amplifier...
That's effectively what they've got to use. Narrow it down to a direction, go that direction. Kind of like Marco polo.
I just find it hard to believe that with all our advances in communication, they cant setup something that triggers a connection to satellites and triangulates its position then transmits it toa central location. I mean SURELY it can be done without too much expense, the shitty little bluetooth thing worth "00 in my car could manage that.
Yes, but bluetooth over say the distance of 30km's? Not likely... Plus there's power concerns... Right now it's doing a very loud beep every thirty seconds. Imagine at about 1/30th the power at one beeb every second and you'd get the same, but chances are you'd never find it. It's all about making it possible to have something to collect and be able to find it.
/sigh Im not saying connect via bluetooth over 30km. Im saying the bluetooth one in my car can manage to get a satellite triangulation despite being a cheap bucket of shit that runs off a watch battery. Im SURE that a blackbox could be programmed with a seperate battery that once a gyroscopic sensor indicates it's stopped moving, it connects to a satellite, triangulates its position, and then uses SMS or something to send that info to a central location. The battery required for that would be tiny. If it fails for whatever reason they lost a few hundred dollars from a million dollar aircraft, whoop de do.
So will it work 3km's under water, in the middle of know-where and emit a strong enough signal for 30 days?
I highly doubt it. The power requirements for such a system are just too huge.
No, my thoughts though are why aren't large commercial aircraft fitted with regular tracking capacity. every 30 seconds updates the possition of the aircraft from the GPS and send it back to base. That itself requires very little additional technology. Sure it was out of range of radar (which it was) but satelite communication, no.
I sincerely don't know why they don't do that. But I have a strange hunch that the guys who design these devices for a living thought of your suggestion, studied it, and rejected it for some pretty darn good reason.
Off the topic of my head, the main problem is, which satellite does it connect to? And how? So far as I know no such satellite network exists. Further to which, it would need a directional antenna or else use too much power. This is hard when you, the engineer, have no control on how your black box will come to rest, or float.
It's not a trivial design problem. If it was, it'd be solved.
But I could be wrong. Call Airbus, let me know how much they offer to pay you for the idea.
No, my thoughts though are why aren't large commercial aircraft fitted with regular tracking capacity. every 30 seconds updates the possition of the aircraft from the GPS and send it back to base. That itself requires very little additional technology. Sure it was out of range of radar (which it was) but satelite communication, no.
Such systems exist, they're called transponders. All modern aircraft have them. But they're not much use when the nearest base station is over the horizon, such as on a trans-atlantic flight.
i always wondered why they couldnt use a hardened version of the epirbs used on ships. many ships have hydrostatic releases that cut the epirbs free when they go under. they could be tied into the black box system and store some of the more important data (for investigators), like last known position etc.
I think the key here is that the device is under 3.5kms of water... which would probably greatly diminish the "black box rescuers" detection of the signal.
Quote from El Presidente;365980: Such systems exist, they're called transponders. All modern aircraft have them. But they're not much use when the nearest base station is over the horizon, such as on a trans-atlantic flight.
I'm actually not talking about the transponder('s) fitted to aircraft already... but rather a dial and report system... They already had one on the aircraft, because it was reporting faults back to base (it's on demand) my question is why it doesn't by default transmit GPS locations along with reports. This i'm sure will however be implemented.
It's funny about the epirbs comment. We use them flying light aircraft (in fact, it's law to carry one on any light aircraft in Australia (well, and ELT anyway)). I've never needed to use one (which means I haven't crashed yet. ^_~) but it really comes down to the controlling country. It certainly would have saved a lot of time and effort to have had one fitted into the aircraft skin that deploys on its own. However, I also suspect reasons they don't install these is because of needing to overcome atmostpheric pressure, aerodynamic capabilities and temperature issues. At FL400 the temperature is significantly colder then at 0ASL.
Quote: Brazil calls off search for Air France victims
Posted 43 minutes ago
Brazil's Air Force and Navy have called off the search for additional victims and wreckage from Air France Flight 447, which crashed over the Atlantic on June 1 carrying 228 people.
French officials have given no indication they are ending their own search efforts.
To date, authorities have recovered 51 bodies as well as 600 pieces of wreckage from the Airbus A330-200 jetliner.
Brazilian Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Henry Munhoz said the military was unlikely to find additional bodies and wreckage in the search area so many days after the crash.
"It's already been nine days without seeing any bodies," Mr Munhoz said in a televised news conference.
Brazilian Navy Captain Giucemar Tabosa said French navy ships will remain in the area looking for beacon signals from the plane's voice and flight data recorders, the so-called black boxes.
The cause of the crash is unknown and there is still no sign of the black boxes, which could give vital information about why the plane went down.
Weather and distance from the coast have complicated search efforts from the outset, and officials have said it will be difficult to find the black boxes.