36 public posts in this discussion.
Looks like light is getting beat.
Incredible if confirmed.
BBC News - Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
Quote:
Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles have exceeded the speed of light.
Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.
Scientists claim to have broken the absolute speed barrier - particles travelling faster than the speed of light. : worldnews
RobotRollCall comments on Why exactly can nothing go faster than the speed of light?
OD posted!!! does this mean MC server is updated? :D
It's on the list :) 1.8.1 or 1.9 leak? ;)
better go 1.8.1 - just to be safe ;p
and can we keep the current world? :)
speed of light exceeded :o .... but lets not dwell on such trivial things... is the Minecraft Server updated!? with the current world?
Well if you compress the map and put it into a zip file. I could download it for you and edit it offline if you would like me to take a stab at that? See if we can remove that dogey area and replace it with nice clean area?
MCEdit: Minecraft World Editor (Compatible with MC Beta 1.8!) - Minecraft Forum
EDIT: ill post this in the MC thread also.
Back on topic
The paper is here http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1109/1109.4897.pdf
Haven't finished reading it yet but wonder if they missed something simple like the movement of the earth. Physicist have missed just as simple things in the past.
Not that I doubt that as a whole, we really don't know shit about the universe and how it works... and this could well be correct, but I am leaning toward this being an error in calculations. I mean, there's a lot to work out when something is travelling that far on a planet spinning round a star.
Then again, science is not my strong point. I'll just nod and gesture a little to look smart.
My immediate assumption was that it was an error somewhere in the calculations. Especially because it was an entirely unintended discovery and it came down to 60ns difference in detection. Nano being billionths of a second. That's not much.
I read somewhere yesterday that the GPS they were using to determine location was sensitive enough to detect continental drift. Ironic because they appear to have broken relativity, which is used to make gps work.
Funny, I read that even taking into account the error factor it was still faster.... Time will tell.... ha.
I'm thinking more along the lines that the time discrepancy was a weird side effect of their experiment, which would lead me to think it's probably some part of their experiment that didn't receive complete attention because it wasn't the main focus.
Like say, 60ns is about 1 clock cycle on a 16Mhz microprocessor, which is a common enough frequency to use. Might just be something like a rising edge vs falling edge detection error.
Occams's razor says fuckup more likely that rewriting physics as we know it. It'd be nice to beleive, but I think media blowup of some error is more likely :P
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They also think it's a measuring error.
The repeated the experiment 15,000 times and still couldn't find any errors, so they opened up their research for everyone else to look at and see if they can find the mistake.
All I will say is, I doubt there's anybody here qualified to really comment on these results in any definitive way.
I'll wait for the guys with the capacity to comment on this to come back... In any case, lets not forget this is the purpose of the LHC, to prove and disprove in place theory. Instead of contemplating this as being erroneous, lets focus on if it isn't... This could literally be the biggest thing on real world physics ever, also lets not forget, this isn't a once off result, this is the result of constant testing, and constant findings... The amount of data collected from one collision is immense (from what I've heard it the terra quads of information)... The time it takes to process these results is immense.
Quote from Kagetsu;401201:
All I will say is, I doubt there's anybody here qualified to really comment on these results in any definitive way.
I'll wait for the guys with the capacity to comment on this to come back... In any case, lets not forget this is the purpose of the LHC, to prove and disprove in place theory. Instead of contemplating this as being erroneous, lets focus on if it isn't... This could literally be the biggest thing on real world physics ever, also lets not forget, this isn't a once off result, this is the result of constant testing, and constant findings... The amount of data collected from one collision is immense (from what I've heard it the terra quads of information)... The time it takes to process these results is immense.
As there's no-one here who's qualified to comment on these results in any definitive way, there's obviously no purpose speculating on what it could mean if it's not an error.
That too is true. ^_^
Then lets wait and see.
Let's just shut this thread down because there's no one qualified to do anything here
Closing the forum this evening. Turns out you're all stupid, talentless wankers and shouldn't be discussing anything at all. :P
As the mentioned above the papers primary goal is for other physicist to find where they went wrong or what they missed to explain the discrepancy. Must admit on first reading I only understood about a 1/2 the paper but it has been about 10 years since I've done any detailed study in physics and a lot has been done to improve our understanding of neutrinos in the time. There are a couple of assumptions in paper but all of them a reasonable and would skew the measured time to be longer than the actual travel time if they proved to be completely wrong. Things like the fact they can't actually measure where/when the neutrino is produced. These assumption build into the uncertainty of the result which is reported. BTW check out page 10 for the GPS measurements before and after the earth quake.
My background.
Studied physics and advancement mathematics at uni before I discovered I couldn't actually afford to move to a suitable uni to continue my study. My goal once upon a time was to work in particle physics. While I've kept my mathematics skills in use where possible it has been a long time since I've studied physics is any sort of useful way.
To be honest, i wouldn't be entirely surprised. They say the speed of light is a constant of the universe, and is the absolute ultimate speed. I wouldn't place my life on it.
Funnily enough, I saw an article saying "Time travel could be achieved" As a result of this discovery. Impossible. To achieve time travel, one must travel faster then the speed of time. How do you travel faster then the speed of time? I don't think you can. so therefore, Light is not the fastest thing in this universe.
I think you got speed of time mixed up with speed of light, in science with the speed of light being constant time can change relative to this speed. They theorised that if you were to travel faster than this constant you would theoretically be reversing time...
all a bunch of heebeegeebeez eh?
No i didn't. i just didn't have the right wording to explain it. the point is that even if you do travel faster than the speed of light, you are not travelling through time. It takes the light of the stars billions of years to reach us. not because time is slowed, but because light cannot instantly reach us. light is not faster then time. therefore if you achieve the speed of light or above, you are still not travelling through time.
Edit: Billions being a bit of an exaggeration, but still, some stars light dosen't reach us for thousands of years.
Just have a read dude, under how science is understood now speed of light is a constant while time varies depending on that speed.
How we enjoy life now is what time is in relation to the speed we are traveling in the universe, if you were to remove yourself from earth and fly around close to the speed of light and then return to earth 1 year later for you, more time would have elapsed on earth, that's the science at the moment.
This is where the theory comes in, if you were to travel faster than light you would be in a frame of time that hasn't happened yet therefore reversing time :D
Yeah i've read it. but from what i can intrepret from your post, your judging the speed of light as a continuous influence on time. we have to remember that we can't judge time in years and days in space. Therefore, the real problem we encounter is we really have no way of dating time in space. probably one of the flaws we would have to get past if we want to achieve True space travel (longer ventures then our own solar system)
Why time slows down when approaching the Speed of?Light. - Simple Curiosity? - Utah Internet Tech Startups, Angel Investing, Sendside Networks, Park City.
Read that, doesn't really explain it as it has been explained to me but it will do a much better job than I could hehe
This has certainly been quite an interesting read but just to put more fuel to the fire ...
Time is constant on a linear plane (in any 2-dimensional direction) until it is affected by gravity. Whereby the greater the influence of gravity the quicker time goes (this was tested by NASA using a very specific device which could do time in the .00000+ second area) [You can find this out by looking on Google (it is everyone's friend except for maybe the Chinese Government)]. Though this does not mean that when something enters the void of space (far from any galaxy) that time does not exist (or stays still), as every unit of mass omits a very minute amount of gravitational pull, also things as dark matter / energy and a few others.
As for time slowing down while moving towards the speed of light ... I honestly think one would just travel a greater distance and it would have no correlation with time, since the speed of light is a measurement of distance traveled per second or hour.
xkcd: Neutrinos
Quote from Chycophy;401248:
As for time slowing down while moving towards the speed of light ... I honestly think one would just travel a greater distance and it would have no correlation with time, since the speed of light is a measurement of distance traveled per second or hour.
time dilation is fairly well accepted at this stage. NASA has done some basic experiments to test its existence: Time Dilation Experiments
GPS satellites have to account for the fact that their clocks tick marginally slower than the exact same clock would on Earth.
edit: here's a good write-up on relativity and GPS sats: http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html
Quote from rec;401207:
Closing the forum this evening. Turns out you're all stupid, talentless wankers and shouldn't be discussing anything at all. :P
Guilty your honour.
Speedy neutrino mystery likely solved, relativity safe after all | DVICE
Best part is I don't think that it is the first time that's happened.
BTW this is a problem that should be solvable by a 2nd year student.
I figured it would be something simple. Not that I have any idea about physics...
Occam's razor strikes again