DGA 24, Planning ahead - Feedback required :)

Guys

What can WE do to make your lan more enjoyable.

Spit out some idea's, they could be lame, crazy or strokes of genius.
eg Food, Pizza runs, Specified game times etc?

What would you like to see?

Ohh yes please pizza runs or any food run will be much appreciated

Just a request, but is it possible to get the dates at least 2 weeks in advance cause that's the length of time most places want if you want time off work :)

It's just every other time I get jumbled dates and by the time I get the official date it's too late :x
cheers

I like food, I actually forgot to get dinner on sat so i had to go and get servo pie, which isn't exactly good :P

specified times for games would be good, try and get some large participations going, have a whiteboard or large peice of butchers paper maybe with timetabling for different games. Probably have a half hour between games so people can install/patch for the next one etc etc :P

And each lan introduce a completely different game like serious sam for instance, because that rocked :D

maybe some hard line restrictions on user numbers, say that unrego'd users are limited until after 4pm or something.... then its assumed registered people aren't coming?

maybe some DGA bins? This might be hard to manage cos of spillover but some extra bins strategically placed around inside might cut down on the mess :?

ah well, i'll try to think harder :(

I like the idea of introducing new games.

Also, could we get some more racing style games happening other than Moto GP 2, say Nascar for example. That's a great series and would be awesome at a LAN. I also got another game called e-Racer. It's not very big but it's a pretty good game.

A sumo suit wrestling ring centered in the middle of the lan room.

Quote from Jay:
A sumo suit wrestling ring centered in the middle of the lan room.

All verse Flam :lol: :P j/k

Yep I agree with harb - more bins and some sort of organisation with games so that not only can we get more numbers, but also so that people have an opportunity to sample different games. (ie Serious Sam, MotoGP, etc.)

not saying the way things are being done now isn't working, of course.

Red Flashing lights and Sirens, for that ultra-real War zone effect.

Nah.

The bins would be good though.

Name Tags?

Quote from NorthernMenace:

Name Tags?

Name Tags for your Nick not your real name, then you can tell who is "KICKING YOUR ASS :twisted: " but you couldn't stalk them :wink:

And a bucking bull next to the sumo ring

I'd like to see softdrinks on sale.
Cans of coke etc.
Personally i think they would sell very well and hopefully make DGA some profit on the side, to put back into the venue/hardware costs.

oh.
And a jello-filled baby pool, with lots of naked playboy models rolling about in it.

This is only the second time Motogp2 has been played at DGA. 1st time it was 3-4 people this time it was 8-9. But there does need to be some more racing games I agree with that 100%.

Revolt is a classic, Nascar 98-99-2000-2001-2002-2003 etc, Colin McCray Rally2, V8 Supercar Race driver, there are a few more out there.

Pizza run is a good idead to get into again, also drinks on hand are a good idea aswell. Worked well at EVO3.

Ok don't know if a like this idea myself buts its an idea.

As there no prizes for the smaller comps that happen maybe each person who enters a comp or all people who attend DGA pay an extra $5 for enter which will go towards giving out prizes for these comps. Just an idea.

Keep it coming guys, all good so far.

Please don't hold back the criticism.

As long as it's CONSTRUCTIVE criticism its all good.

Would it be too expensive/impractical to get a few beanbags for a "chill-out" area (not to be used as a sleeping area, to be fair to those who want a little time-out)? I thought it was a neat idea when I saw it at WCG.

Good point. Xaine

Quote from Milenko:
I'd like to see softdrinks on sale.
Cans of coke etc.

We (Freedom LANs) generally sell out of softdrinks. It saves people worrying about "catering". Although Solo outsells Coke about 4-1.

It's a good idea. I always wondered why DGA never picked up the idea before.

Quote from Milenko:

Personally i think they would sell very well and hopefully make DGA some profit on the side, to put back into the venue/hardware costs.

Well it depends on how DGA's costs and overheads are structured. For us drinks make no profit because:
a) We sell them for ", and they cost 80c each, and
b) We have to buy ice, which pretty much chews up the profit from cans and then some.

I don't see DGA's costings on cans being any different. But I've got no idea about DGA's finances, I expect they are as healthy and well-managed. (No sarcasm intended).

Quote from Milenko:
oh.
And a jello-filled baby pool, with lots of naked playboy models rolling about in it.

Oh, that is so my idea. I've been asking for strippers at Freedom LANs for months, but our director of LANs keeps shooting me down on the issue. :)

Not to mention our Secretary.

Quote from El Presidente:

[quote:aaf40abd5c="Milenko"]oh.
And a jello-filled baby pool, with lots of naked playboy models rolling about in it.

Oh, that is so my idea. I've been asking for strippers at Freedom LANs for months, but our director of LANs keeps shooting me down on the issue. :)

Not to mention our Secretary.[/quote:aaf40abd5c]

lol hell yes...

but yeah i like the idea of somewhere just to chill.... oo and no noise from speakers between certin hours... eg 3am - 8 am... so people can sleep... that would be wonderful..
and comps orginsed at every lan or most of them.... that would be cool...

I think you need to work on the network issues a bit more. Seeing as this weekends lan was really bad in that area.

Rather then having a serial layout try more paralell. Eg several big switches (you guys have 1ghz switches right?) which run a network of tables off them

then the big switches are connected. That might help more.

Or even set people with FTP's to have a maximum leech of say 10 people.

Quote from Xaine:
Would it be too expensive/impractical to get a few beanbags for a "chill-out" area (not to be used as a sleeping area, to be fair to those who want a little time-out)? I thought it was a neat idea when I saw it at WCG.

it was a nice idea, and it works fine for a one off event, but even clackers managed to asassinate one, and I've seen the general hygeine of people at DGA, you'd have to buy new ones every lan :(

and as for drinks vs Ice, would dga be allowed to use the fridges they have at the greek school?

however you then either have to have someone man the drinks the whole time, or trust the honour of the gamers(hehe, yeah right)

if you do sell drinks, in cans, in any quantity, i suggest you get a can crusher thingo, i think they're like "5-20 and they'll reduce your need for bins, shit, considering the towers that people build, it's probably a good idea now :P... anyone interested in being a hippy and making a recycle bin :P

along with the timetabling of games, maybe a ban on file sharing on the first day and allow it after 2am or something when gaming dies off a little... this might turn off a few of the newer crowd that seem to be bulking out the numbers at the lan, but personally if they aren't playing games at all I don't really care about them at all :P

Quote from spero:
Rather then having a serial layout try more paralell. Eg several big switches (you guys have 1ghz switches right?) which run a network of tables off them

they have a parallel network now.... with the gigabit gigabit gigabit shitshitshit as the backbone..

I recon there should be prizes for the comps
2 comps per lan one FPS and one RTS
Or anythign really thats not the same gender.

But having like a 50$ cash prize or 100$ even would lure more people to get together train and practice and play the games at the comp makeing it a much better and more exciting comp.

"Rather then having a serial layout try more paralell. Eg several big switches (you guys have 1ghz switches right?) which run a network of tables off them "

This is basically what we do , the main switch connects to all the servers and each switch off that connects to people, no hops, no meshing.
I suppose parallel is a word for it :)

1ghz switches I think you mean 1GBit switches.
Nope, to start with they are pretty expensive still. THere would be no advantage to having a GBit network if ALL the switches were not Gbit and all the network cards were Gbit. It would be better to spend the same amount of money on a huge Cisco catalyst 5000 or something similiar, huge backbone, 80 odd ports and more processing power than most of the PC's there. But you are talking well over 10K for either option.

It not actually the speed of the connection, its the amount of memory each switch has to send the data its recieving from the ports.

If you have a 24 port switch running full duplex at 100Mbs then concievably you could have 2.4GBs of data running thru it each second if every port was maxed. Now most switches will have a backbone of 1-2GBs data throughput. The cheap ones you will be lucky to get 1GBs

The bottleneck is the main switch that all these other switches connect to.
Currently we have on 100 person lan at least 7 switches.
Do the maths and the main switch needs to be able to handle 15GBs of data a second. Needless to say only CISCO or other very high switches have anything coming close to this.
The good run of the mill 10,000 dollar cisco has about a 4-6 GBs backbone.
Even is the ports are running at 25% your looking at 4-5GBs per second.
Add some network virus's, average cables, IP port scanners, pingers and you get the sort of problems we had last weekend.
Note GigaBits (GBs) and GigaBytes (GB) are different, it's to do with bits and bytes and the difference in word sizes or some shit I can really dredge out of my mind at midnite :)
Give it 2-3 years and hopefully everything will be GBit. But then you are transferring 10x the information with no increase in switch backbone memory, no cheap increase yet. Hence why Gbit has been rather slow to take off.

If we had a fully manageable switch ($$) we could split the amount of backbone bandwidth each network port or set of ports gets an equal amount so one overloaded or busy switch wouldn't affect network loading.

I would dearly LOVE to see how some of the big southern lans work, with over 300-500 people the setup must be fairly crazy, multiple IP's, subnets.
Makes our little gathering absolutely ameoba like in comparison.
Wouldn't like to setup one tho.

Hope that answers any query's you have about our networking setup :)
If you are interested I could do a diagram and post it.
I might do that anyway*Goes searching for Visio CD*

so there are a collection of 'table' switches, all connected up to one more more bridging switches? like a tree sort of arcitecture? i dont know much about networking, but would using multiple cables to connected the switches help any? is it possible on the current hardware? is it possible at all? =P i remember wolfspirit posting about it using multiple NIC's to connect to your switch, to increase one PC's bandwidth, why not do something like that to increase the networks bandwidth?

or how bout having one side of the network set up for leeching, and one side set up for gaming.. if you want to play games set up on one side, when you want to leech move your computer.. its radical, but it might just fix the lag problems in games..

Hmmm. One thing that bugs me... Whats the deal with the upcoming comps that get announced on the forum, then, its as if it never existed. eg, the comp doesnt happen, no updates get posted in the thread to say its going to happen or its NOT going to happen OR atleast a "we'll see on the day". Examples are, the Vietcong comp, The Fun comps at EVO3.5 which was Q3 and MOHAA, and just recently the Wolf:ET comp (which thread has been deleted, trying to cover it up?). I understand if there isnt enough interest and they dont get held but couldnt you say they are cancelled? I always post in the thread asking whats going on with them and never get a reply :/.

wasn't rec behind organising that comp? yeah, i was a bit annoyed myself about the ET comp not being run.. i even scrounged together a clan of people that dont normally show up at DGA's.. just to play in it =P

im interested to know what happened..

I think they use multiple cables already

as for the comps, its just lack of organisation, as for the ET comp, noone was interested in playing at the same time, only little groups, need more communication in that respect.. maybe a standard DGA messenger application :D, don't ask me, i can't code hello world :P

ah I'd like to see a new game trialed each lan, possibly in addition to a novelty game played :P

I'd really like to have a go at this exclusively multiplayer game called savage - (screenies) which got some good review from penny arcade, and it looks pretty cool, its similar to natural selection only its a proper game not a mod, and both sides have commanders and all sorts of stuff, also GIANT MONSTERS :D

yeah so like.. whatever :D

Name badges, Instant messages. Comp/game signups at the lan if you want to play a game put your name down on a bit of paper when you reacha threshold comp/game starts. PA system may help with that(I may be able to get the gear if not I can certainity set it up). NO speakers, and enforced cutback of the leaching. It is called Darwin GAMERS Asociation not leachers are us.

Savage looks a bit like Giants, and in sayign that i would love a multiplayer game of giants have only ever been able to play with about 5 ppl in a game...
and Kabuto looks bigger than the savages giant =P

some screen shots and stuff here if u haven't heard of the game
http://www.gamezone.com/gamesell/screens/s11632.htm

yeah i think the instant messaging would be a great idea

should setup icq for groupware (or similiar, and then when some1 wants to set up a game of something, message the instant messaging admin to broadcast a message to the lan

ie "Crimson Skies up in 10 mins"
"Warcraft 3 winner is ....."

"who the heck ....."

If I get to the next lan, i might try and bring a server along to run icq groupware for networks.

The only problem with this P-Air, is that you will have retards spamming the network.

Trust me, it will happen.
I can only resist so much temptation before i snap.

Also.
Wouldnt there be issues with dropping you back to desktop to see your "Crimson skies up in 10 mins" message?
Or at least have the message overlay your current game?

If it did/does, i for one wouldnt be using it :S

Comps have been sorted .. refer to DGA 24 Comps for further notice ..

Quote from Milenko:
The only problem with this P-Air, is that you will have retards spamming the network.

Trust me, it will happen.
I can only resist so much temptation before i snap.

Also.
Wouldnt there be issues with dropping you back to desktop to see your "Crimson skies up in 10 mins" message?
Or at least have the message overlay your current game?

If it did/does, i for one wouldnt be using it :S

Yup I think you might be right, but i was thiking i might just bring it along, try it out and see how it works, if crap starts happening will can the idea.

u can always ass the stupid heads to u'r ignore list there for u dont see any incomming messages from them

k, the icq for groupware is the old icq98

With the client you can disable the alerts, and set the icq to donot disturb etc, and still receive messages, it just wont bring you out of a game.

As knight said, if someone begins spamming simply set them to ignore.

The server can broadcast to all

So procedure could be load up icq, configure the client, and seek user name/password.

Once everything is running, if you want to let everyone know something, send to the server admin to broadcast. If someone contiues to spam, then they can be diconnected from the server.

Have me there :D Whoa

Quote from everyone:
WHOA! THAT'S A HEAPS GOOD IDEA

It sure is.

Apparently it's like a 9 day travel for me to get from N.S.W to Darwin. But I might be there for Evo4!

A few of us (admins) will be testing and trialing ICQ Group Ware at DGA 24 to see how it goes .. considering it all runs ok, then it will be used across for everybody at dga 25 .

FWIW I'd suggest using a Jabber-based system over ICQ for groups.

Basically with Jabber you can customise the protocol if you like, you can also encrypt it (secure chat between admins, or within a clan). It's generally more robust too - a better design. Multiple servers, competing implementations, plugins out the wazoo.

As I've said before we've been looking at running a jabber server at Freedom LANs. It'd be best if we standardised on the same platform, but Jabber is our preference.

-- edit --

And don't take my word for it: Meph also talked about Jabber earlier on:
http://www.gamers-underground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12157

Quote from Xaine:
Would it be too expensive/impractical to get a few beanbags for a "chill-out" area (not to be used as a sleeping area, to be fair to those who want a little time-out)? I thought it was a neat idea when I saw it at WCG.

all the bean bags that "were" in the one location... everyone down the back tok them and once someone starts sleeping on them espically when they took 2 per person (rec and OD) they go very quickly. so in that case... we need lots of bean bags!

one of the admins came up with an idea a while ago, i believe it is something rec and / or od could do, a html updste site like for instance \\192.168.1.3:8080 and it lists the comps, names of admins, floor plan, updates etc. etc.

i reckon it was a top idea. what do you reckon.

Quote from CoCoBuckeTs:
"
The good run of the mill 10,000 dollar cisco has about a 4-6 GBs backbone.

pfft....sif :D

Quote from Lucifer Dragar:
one of the admins came up with an idea a while ago, i believe it is something rec and / or od could do, a html updste site like for instance \\192.168.1.3:8080 and it lists the comps, names of admins, floor plan, updates etc. etc.

i reckon it was a top idea. what do you reckon.

With a DNS/WINS server you could use names: http://comps, http://games, http://pizza ... or maybe just http://dga .

We've been looking at this for Freedom LANs. It is a good idea.

Shouldn't that just work with that being the machine's name and having that machine running a webserver of some sort like IIS also.

Just checking I have a test site running on http://laptop/web/

A PA system or a Whiteboard or something would be awesome to broadcast what games are being hosted on what IP's... A whiteboard with an overhead light would be easy to arrange wouldn't it? Those who want to add to the Board would go write up what game and what ip and then go host and blah.

Quote from Jay:
Shouldn't that just work with that being the machine's name and having that machine running a webserver of some sort like IIS also.

Just checking I have a test site running on http://laptop/web/

I'd need to defer to an expert here, but I'm close to certain that you'd need a DNS server for it to work.

A question for Windows networking experts - would setting up a WINS server speed up leeching by reducing "who's out there?" broadcasts from clients? If so, I think it'd be a good idea to run one :)

If you would like to give me a list of switches you have and what you are trying to achieve I can come up with a diagram for connections and some basic switch config files - me network engineer CCNP etc

As Coco said CISCO switches are the way to go - even the 24 port will switch at wire speed ( 100 Mb Full Duplex ) when all ports are connected.

CISCO 5000's are nearing end of life - ie not supported any more - but are a dam good unit - you may be able to pick one up cheap ..... the 24 port 100Mb line cards may be a bit harder to find.

CISCO 2924's or 2948's may be a better idea - cheaper and support 24 or 48 ports - 100 Md FD depending on model - these are also end of life but are a good unit too. You can interconnect them using FEC ( fast ether channel ) using groups of ports - 2 or 4 - to give you 200Mb or 400Mb Full Duplex backbone respectively.

As I have said before VLAN's are the way to go to segregate traffic - gaming vs leeching - and will reduce the size of your broadcast domains. Even separate VLANs for each game and server. Will be an admin overhead to administer depending how you want to control access etc.

The only caveat with VLANs is if you want to go from one VLAN to another you will need a layer 3 device - ie a router

Just some ideas for what they are worth as I see this as an ongoing issue with the LAN's

A DNS server would also be the way to go - easy to set up and administer - only needs to be a low end PC

Quote from TopGun:

A DNS server would also be the way to go - easy to set up and administer - only needs to be a low end PC

The real problem is the use of DHCP to give out IPs and addresses for WINS and DNS servers.

This is because Internet Connection Sharing on Windows 2k/XP enables a DHCP server on that machine.

Which is why at LANs these days there are always huge collisions and problems, because when your computer broadcasts asking for a DHCP server, it gets about a dozen replies.

So far as I can make out, Windows picks the first reply and runs with it. So you tend to be served DHCP leases by people on the same switch as you.

Yep DHCP is a pain .... first one to answer gets the job

FYI - CISCO routers can be configured as a DHCP server - thats what I do at home.

Would it be worth putting each half of the room on different subnets?
Or would this just be a pain in the ass for gaming?

2 Subnets .. 1 for gaming and 1 for leechers.. sort of like 2 networks /..

Not really viable though .. :(

Quote from Unseen:
2 Subnets .. 1 for gaming and 1 for leechers.. sort of like 2 networks /..

Not really viable though .. :(

Yes it is and can be done easily with VLANS - each VLAN = a subnet

To traverse from one VLAN to the other you will need a router

Would having two subnets mean that you would physically have to move your comp to another switch?

Methinks that aspect would prevent it from being viable, fullstop.

(except for the heroes like me who have laptops of course)

No it doesn't. It just means the way your IP address is assigned varies between between the leechers and the gamers hence the way data is sent around the place. Well very layman terms. Not my finest moment since Comms Engineering 2.

Toppy knows his stuff. A router would help, if we owned a decent cisco or something similar we could have it permanently set and grouped .
Or yeah the cheaper/more time consuming way is to have 2 switches on each table, one for leeching and one for gaming.
But when CS takes a max of 12K/s and DC double that? that comes nowehere near the netwrok strain of getting 7Mb/s a sec from an ftp site.
So more than likely the gaming will run sweet but leeching will still encounter the same problems , but it would help and be a good idea to at least test.
Im not too sure what the answer is, quite simply small to medium lans were not made with the aim of having 60 out of 100 people downloading 4x700Mb files at one time for 8 hours straight.
But we are working on it, the discussion here is giving me new ideas so please continue. :)

As for DNS, well i would suggest it could cause more problems legally and techinically then necessary. It mainly aids in helping people find each other and share files via windows networking by attaching and refreshing the names of the pc's to the ip addresses (partof/simply), something we discourage at DGA's due to the crappy nature of windows networking and legal reasons.
If people really have to share their personal files FTP is the way to go.
DHCp is the main component, Rakers current one is very aggressive in kicking people off their shared connection.
I think we have about 3 per lan that come with a dsl connection shared. Easily sorted once you have their ip, however for a beginning admin a DNS server would make it easier to identify them.

:)

Quote from Jay:
No it doesn't. It just means the way your IP address is assigned varies between between the leechers and the gamers hence the way data is sent around the place. Well very layman terms. Not my finest moment since Comms Engineering 2.

OK so if IPs are automatically assigned, how would you tell it to grab a 'gamer' IP as opposed to a 'leecher' IP?

Sorry if i seem dense.

Rec and OD thought the network was very

Quote from Mungus:
[quote:76e226a521="Jay"]No it doesn't. It just means the way your IP address is assigned varies between between the leechers and the gamers hence the way data is sent around the place. Well very layman terms. Not my finest moment since Comms Engineering 2.

OK so if IPs are automatically assigned, how would you tell it to grab a 'gamer' IP as opposed to a 'leecher' IP?

Sorry if i seem dense.[/quote:76e226a521]

I don't think you can get it to tell the difference, a DHCP IP is the same thing regardless of what the server it came from is set up for.

BTW, would setting the switches up like this (ignore the full stops):

[switch]-----------[switch]
.........\................/
...........\[switch]/

as opposed to:

[switch]-----[switch]-----[switch]

make any difference, cause that way it would have a direct connection rather than having to go through the other switch first. Probably not but I don't know so better to ask I guess.

WHat you describe their is basically called meshing.

Very good under some circumstances, not too good for us, we have tried it that way but without every switch being 'intelligent' they don't remember which way is which so you get a lot of lost and lonely packets :)

And less ports available :twisted: meaning more switches needed

Ok to clearup some stuff ....

Depending what VLAN you are connected to will determine what IP you get - each switch port is assigned to a VLAN's - so to move from VLAN to VLAN you either change the switch port VLAN assignmnet - admin overhead - or swap cable to port in other VLAN - requires higher port density - more switches.

Now for all this to work you need a router with a logical ineterface defined for each VLAN - part of the VLAN config is a helper address for the DHCP server to forward DHCP requests to.

The diagram of the 3 switches in a circle looks niv=ce but logically you will end up with the second ascii art - switches use a thing called spanning tree which prevents loops in the topology - it will send out BPDU's to discover the network topology and if it discovers a loop will set a port to be in a blocking stste to break the loop.

The solution is to use Trunks with VLANs plus a router to route between VLAN's

Can we try to have it in 5 weeks, I know its far away, but I would of left my work at Bunnings & have the whole weekend to play games at LAN :lol:

even though the Exams are on :? its alright, not for another week after that :D

Could someone please clear this up for me?
I have a switch that can setup 4 (or 8, i forgot) VLAN's, and i was just wondering if those VLAN's would be able to see each other because they are from the same switch? Also it has a 200m/bit throughput for each port and you can link it to other switches using upto 4 ports (800m/bit backbone?), i also dont know how this works.

"If" i can lend it out this weekend would it be of any use?

By my view, yeah it would help out, as there is only 1/18 port [i][color=red]I think[/color][/i] to each table, & there is alwaysa couple of people showing up late, like me. to find out that there aren't any ports left on the table you are on, which annoys me, so plez try to bring if u could, of course must be okayd by the head guys :lol: [/i]

Bins always get overloaded the next day and outside can be very disgusting maybe recycling and normal wheelie bins would help or set some standard tidiness rule to lan goers. For example those who order pizza the boxes will easily overloaded the existing bin out there so the recycling bin will be handy or they could simply take their rubbish home.
All I'm saying the bins outside need to be use moderately. :(

I agree with trying new games such as Moto GP, ET and even old games that Lan Goers didn't have a chance to play. I like more variety of quality games being played on DGA 24.

Might be a good idea to discuss in group what new or old games to play at the LAN sometimes. 8)

I recommend: Moto GP
RalliSport Challenge
Desert Combat
Rainbow Six 3 Raven Shield
UT 2003

Well here r some I want to try

Halo [i][color=red]jus for kicks[/color][/i]
Desert Combat
BF: 1942
SC: BW
C&C Generals
WCIII: FT
Freelancer
Starlancer [i][color=red]Its fun to have dogfights in space :lol: [/color][/i]
UT: 2003
GTA: VC [i] [color=red]haven't played multiplayer with the MTA server, but it is fun[/color][/i]
NS
CS

Thats all for a nice fun filled night[/i]

Quote from dincht:
Bins always get overloaded the next day and outside can be very disgusting maybe recycling and normal wheelie bins would help or set some standard tidiness rule to lan goers. For example those who order pizza the boxes will easily overloaded the existing bin out there so the recycling bin will be handy or they could simply take their rubbish home.
All I'm saying the bins outside need to be use moderately. :(
Just letting u know, u can't recycle pizza boxes. They are soiled with food.

But about 10 Wheelie Bins would be good. :shock:

I didn't know...

Anyway I agreed

10 wheely-bins, isn't that I bit much :shock: , some much pizzas boxes......

Make it 15 :lol:

Ok so you notice the bins are full, yet there are 10 or so admins, thought on telling one of them?

As soon as we know the problem can be fixed

Quote from Unseen:
Ok so you notice the bins are full, yet there are 10 or so admins, thought on telling one of them?

I'm guessing people figure that it'll be like primary school all over again: tell the teacher about a mess and you'll be expected to help clean it up.

"shhhh don't tell Mr Unseen, he'll make you do some work, we can't be greatful for what the have done for us by organising the DGA"

"quick run I can hear Mr Rec coming and he'll make you wash the Bins as well as empty them"