345 killed in pilgrim stampede

17 public posts in this discussion.

Post 1

Article taken from:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17809964-2,00.html

AT least 345 Muslim pilgrims were crushed to death overnight during a stoning ritual on the last day of the hajj, the worst tragedy to beset the sacred ritual in more than a decade.

"So far, the number of confirmed deaths is 345 and the number of injured in hospital is 289," Health Minister Hamad bin Abdullah al-Manei said, adding that many had been discharged.
ABC radio said this morning at least one Australian was believed among the injured. Some 4000 Australians are taking part in this year's hajj.

The pilgrims were crushed at the eastern entrance of Mena's disaster-prone Jamarat Bridge as they jostled to perform the stoning between noon and sunset in Mena, a narrow valley near the holy city of Mecca.

"It was like the road of death there," one pilgrim said, describing women fainting and people elbowing and pushing to get closer to the wall where pilgrims direct their stones in a symbolic attack on the devil.

About 2.5 million Muslims are performing the hajj this year, and the death toll was the worst since 1426 people were killed in a stampede in a tunnel in Mecca in 1990.

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The latest crush intensified as many pilgrims scrambled to pick up belongings lost in the heavy crowds, officials said.
"Immediately after noon, there was severe overcrowding among the pilgrims that led to many falling and dying," Mr Manei said. Many pilgrims insist on following Prophet Mohammed's example of stoning after noon prayers instead of staggering the ritual throughout the day as some clerics recommend.

Bodies covered in white shrouds littered the Jamarat area, as medics tended to the injured on stretchers. The bodies were driven away in ambulances and refrigerated trucks.

"The people who died were trying to get onto the bridge to do their stoning. But a wave of people came from the (other) direction trying to get off the bridge. That's when people died," said Egyptian Amr Gad.

The crush was the second disaster to hit this year's pilgrimage. Last week, 76 people were killed when a hostel in Mecca collapsed in a narrow street.

Saudi security forces set up a tight cordon around the Jamarat Bridge to control the crowds, as many pilgrims thronged to carry on stoning three walls in a symbolic rejection of temptation.

"It (the crush) was the result of a large number of personal belongings being dropped and because large numbers of pilgrims insisted on doing the stoning in the afternoon," the Saudi Interior Ministry said in a statement.

"Pilgrims fell over and crushed each other at the eastern entrance to the Jamarat," the statement said.

The hajj is a duty for every able-bodied Muslim at least once in a lifetime. Many pilgrims transport their belongings from site to site, hampering the flow of pilgrims.

The pilgrimage has been marred by stampedes in the past, and some of the worst have occurred in Mena. In 2004, some 250 pilgrims were crushed to death at Jamarat Bridge. A decade earlier, 270 were killed in a similar stampede.

Saudi Arabia has revamped the Jamarat area by expanding the stoning targets and provided an unprecedented security blanket including 60,000 security men to control the huge crowd and avert possible attacks by Islamist militants.

After this year's hajj, the Jamarat Bridge will be replaced with a more elaborate bridge involving a four-level system of entrances and exits to the three walls, including a subway.

Now at first glance I read that title and thought the use of wording and whether it was appropriate or not. In my opinion the word stampede is a word that is probably more inclined to be used involving buffalos, elephants, horses, giant quadraped ape monsters whatever but people?

Are these guys people? What sense of humanity is involved when another man tramples a woman to throw a stone at some religous symbol. Now I may be a little bias towards religion in general but this is the kind of article that makes you stop and think "What the hell?". I mean these people are killing each other out of pure disregard for their fellow man to throw stones at a damn wall.

I often rant about religion being a joke, but this is utterly rooted. What are your thoughts?

Post 2

I think it's a bit of a stretch to use this article as an example to support your bias against religion.

Personally, I'm not at all surprised - religious or not, people at their very core are mostly stupid and/or selfish.

Post 3

Well no I'm not trying to pose this as anti religous thread.

I'm really addressing the total lack of value on human life that some of these people seem to possess. And if thats your view on people in general then I think you must be surrounded by people of a pretty poor mentality.

Post 4

Quote from Lupos Davalte:
"It was like the road of death there," one pilgrim said, describing women fainting and people elbowing and pushing to get closer to the wall where pilgrims direct their stones in a symbolic attack on the devil.

Devil : 345
Pilgrims : 0

And yes a pack of humans has a much lower level IQ than buffalo.

Post 5

Quote from Lupos Davalte:
Well no I'm not trying to pose this as anti religous thread.

That's good to hear then.

Quote from Lupos Davalte:
I'm really addressing the total lack of value on human life that some of these people seem to possess.

Couldn't agree more - you'd think that these people would have learned from last time.

Quote from Lupos Davalte:
And if thats your view on people in general then I think you must be surrounded by people of a pretty poor mentality.

Sorry for the broad generalisation - this doesn't mean that I think that all people are stupid. I think that most people try hard to overcome our most basic selfish instincts, but sadly (and this is through observations over the years - yes, I'm a bit of an old fart compared to most people around here) I have become very jaded and cynical in that this is how people, at their most basic level, are truly selfish, thoughtless, and/or stupid (and yes, this even includes me :-)).

Post 6

What a religion ehh, throw stones at your enemy is a duty.

No wonder the middle east is fvcked up.

Post 7

Thanks Coco I waiting for someone else to say that! I guess my concern is that we are allowing people with that kind of lack of moral ethics or humane value for life to assimilate into our own population.

I know its on a lesser scale in Australia but its still kinda scary!

Post 8

Quote from CoCoBuckeTs:
No wonder the middle east is fvcked up.

What's really sad is when they come here and people are too spineless to say that we won't tolerate that sort of behaviour, "in case we offend them".

gah...I'll stop before I steer this in the wrong direction.:mad:

Post 9

Actually this article rather scares me. I have a friend at Mecca at the moment. He works for my company and has been an interesting conversationalist over the years as we debate christianity vs islam. I would hate to think he has been injured in this incident :(

Post 10

I don't mean to be crude Phoenix but if he did get injured you've just got yourself a bucketload of ammo to use against him in your next debate.

I wonder how many out of those 345 people that died were called Mohammed?

Post 11

sigh thats messed up, way i see it we are ment to live and die but to even think about doing that is bloody stupid what happen to the whole live, believe in your god and do no harm to your fellow man.

Post 12

So, say the MCG was packed and there was a fire. Do you really think people would move out calm and collected?
No, its a case of "**** that im not getting burnt to death"

Post 13

So, say the MCG was packed and there was a fire. Do you really think people would move out calm and collected?
No, its a case of "**** that im not getting burnt to death"

Post 14

Depending on teh severity of the fire, I'd actually be one of the last to leave.
Like im usually the last to get off a bus or what not. Let all the morons in a hurry push and shove, while i calmly walk out once all the ignant people are done.

Post 15

psyave I think the point is that this isn't an emergency. We all behave very differently when our primal instinct for survival kicks in so thats a different issue. What I'm saying here is that these people have gone to one place to throw stones at a wall that isn't going anywhere yet they've trampled their own.

Post 16

Quote from psyave:
So, say the MCG was packed and there was a fire. Do you really think people would move out calm and collected?
No, its a case of "**** that im not getting burnt to death"

Why run out?? I'd run to the middle... Green grass dont burn all that well. But then again, neither does concrete.

Post 17

Its not the point of what you would do. its all the other morons scared of the fire that would do a crash +50 DMG to you (per person) :P

Get alot of people running from a fire or running to a set of tits and the rest follow like sheep