Estimated 200 dead from Hostage crisis.

Man this is ****ed up.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10665241%255E401,00.html

i saw it on the news...but i thought the camera man saw approx. 100 dead on the gym floor? :?

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...Russian troops stormed the building that's bullshit, they shouldn't have stormed it, i knew they would. It only caused more panic/confusion which lead to deaths and further injury..

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"I want to point out that we had not planned any kind of armed action. We offered the continuation of the ongoing talks to peacefully release the hostages" they should've jus done that..far out

The Chechen's jus want independence from Russia, but by committing terrorist acts like this, the female suicide bomber in the cafe, and the two female suicide bombers that killed 80 people on the planes, they aren't proving their point - just stating that they are as confused about what they want as the Russian government seems to them.

Apparently the woman in the gym just detonated herself, I don't think they would've started operations in broad daylight in the first place either.

Az. If they hadn't have stormed the building every single person inside would have died... why?

The terrorists were not giving the kids food and water. They didn't give a shit how many they killed. You may have noticed that the militants rigged explosives everywhere... To me, that's a sure fire sign that ocne they had failed or succeeded (it really didn't seem to matter what the outcome of their negotiations were) they would have blown the place apart.

Quote:
A girl who was inside told Russian television: "There was a bomb taped to the ceiling. The tape peeled off, the bomb fell and exploded."

It's a sad ending... but it could have been much worse.

I think the article is saying they stormed the building after the explosion occurred. What would you do in that situation Az?

Yeh. Bombs went off which opened up an escape route... children fleed and we being slaughtered. If that was happening while I watched I would've stormed the building as well.

If they didn't storm the building after bombs were set of and people were being executed, I would have been even more disgusted.

yeh, i think it was on one of the news.com.au documents, that a bomb was strapped to the roof with tape, which slowly became loose, dropping the bombing and causing it to detonate. if that is the case, that's totally farked.

it'll be surprising if we hear the truth of exactly what happened inside, or if people will be told to keep it hush hush.

poor kids i say

Man, after that bomb dropped from the roof the hostages made a run for it...

The ****ers were shooting kids running away in the back with shotguns....

They deserve to live - in perpetual pain.

Bunch of f**ks, I can't think of anything bad enough to dish out to those a**holes

just read in the daily telegraph...russians let off some sedative gas, which ended up killing 100 people....:S

you sure that wasn't the previous hostage crisis?

actually, i think it may have been, whoops.

that was the cinema one.

theatre.

hmmm...i know it sounds stupid or moronic not to do what the Russians did and rush it, but if their was only 17 or 18 militants [i dunno the figures] why the fck were tanks and the like called in? no way am i supporting the militants actions, not at all - i think it was bloody stupid and can't be an effective way of 'proving their point' .. it just sucks balls that a better way couldn't be found. And like youse have said, their was no time - with no water/food being given to the hostages.

Umm i didn't see any tanks...just armoured vehicles. It's fkn disgusting what they did, but also read up a bit about chechyna(sp?) and you may get a small understanding as to why they were driven to this.

Mate - NOTHING justifies this....

We are all disgusted at this act of terrorism. Tanks were there as a fear factor I gather, yet did not work.

When they take kids the the rules of engagement must go.

The terrorists must die.

The Terrorists have said it's a war as the kerran (can't spell it sorry) states as a true Muslem should fight. I disagree. They were kids, teachers and parents. True Muslems must now rise up and state for the world to hear that this is not how their religion is.

If they fail to do so I can see a troublesome future.

A world word 3 based on Fanatics vs the rest of us sane ppl is now on the cards. 9/11 was the start. Bali the remember. what next.

Don't believe me thats ok. However If you were the second largest superpower in the world with the second largest NUCLEAR power to boot, would you not be temptented to level Chechna (Bad spell again), to dust to show the rebels who rules.

I hope not....

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The terrorists must die

Jesus Christ man, you should be on Bush and Howard's electoral campaings :| you cannot, you seriously can't fight fire with fire. Terrorist extremists don't care whether they die or not, and they rather would for the cause anyway - so seriously what's the point in killing them? I'd rather see every terrorist jailed for life any day...dude - you sound really biased and blind to all aspects, by saying that 9/11 - Bali = World War III or the such is bloody stupid, that's exactly what the extremists want us to believe.

And it's Chechen's from Chechnya. This is their local news and the Russian Human Rights Watch site

Quote from Azreal:
Jesus Christ man, you should be on Bush and Howard's electoral campaings :| you cannot, you seriously can't fight fire with fire. Terrorist extremists don't care whether they die or not, and they rather would for the cause anyway - so seriously what's the point in killing them? I'd rather see every terrorist jailed for life any day...dude - you sound really biased and blind to all aspects, by saying that 9/11 - Bali = World War III or the such is bloody stupid, that's exactly what the extremists want us to believe.

And it's Chechen's from Chechnya. This is their local news and the Russian Human Rights Watch site

and how do YOU suggest they fight terrorists who take and KILL INNOCENT CHILDREN as hostages, and KILL kids as they run from bombs. cup of tea? friendly talks? yeah sure mate, you live in an imaginary world.

a bullet to the head of a terrorist is better than one in a jail cell

^ wholeheartedly agreed cow...

Quote from Azreal:
I'd rather see every terrorist jailed for life any day...
Perhaps so they can do more suicide bombings and terrorist attrocities demanding the release of their compatriots, so that they go and try again?

look, i'm sure some of you are dead set on capital punishment or direct action like 'simply' killing terrorists, but how does that nullify a governments actions? how can it still be ok for a government to commit terrorist acts ie. [b]murder[/b] and not themselves be classified as terrorists? im sorry, but i firmly don't believe in capital punishment or 'an eye for an eye'

not at all do i endorse terrorist actions, i've said that before, and i want every single terrorist in the world to [i]pay[/]i for their actions, not receive a 'simple bullet to the head' - and the best way to do that right now is to jail them. if the world believed that killing another person for their actions is justified, we'd all be murdering fanatic's, regardless of the crimes of the terrorists.

[QUOTE=Jay]Perhaps so they can do more suicide bombings and terrorist attrocities demanding the release of their compatriots, so that they go and try again?[/QUOTE]
Terrorists have always, always been around - but they've only been more active in our eyes as a result of the media. Since Vietnam, the media has been all over every war they can get their hands on - jus look at Afghanistan and Iraq, the most televised and dramatised invasions of my time definitely. If we want to counter terrorism, we need to stop feeding what they want. And some extremists do want media attention, and to rile up governments when committing to their cause.

lol. Capital punishment doesn't really come into the equation (it is what they deserve though) but really, are you going to expend MORE effort in order to capture a terrorist... over taking him/her out?

Doubt it. Especially when you are putting the lives of your people (the military, special forces, police) on the line.

The situation is a catch 22. You kill them, they retaliate.. you jail them, they retaliate (that's one of the reasons behind this atrocity).. you don't do anything and they will find a reason to wreak havoc (French journalists.. hello! they don't care what country you come from).

There is no realistic way to stop terrorists... tbh, you might as well kill them... Plus, it seems they believe they will ascend to heaven by dying in this manner.

It's all gone down the bog hole really.

What ruin said.

You cannot negotiate with a terrorist. They are prepared to die for their cause.

It's nasty but they must die. Pitty the poor bloke behind the snipers scope who is ordered to shoot the terrorist to save 1, 5, 1000 ppl. He will live with the death of the terrorist forever.

The terrorist is there to kill as many as possible.

Life in Jail is too good for em.

Azreal I respect your point of view but you would be the first to die waiving a white flag infront of the terrorists with a peace plan.

And I support no political party in this post.

dude, i would rather die waving a white flag then live waving no flag :| and what the hell has political parties got to do with it?
Quote from Lataf:
Life in Jail is too good for em.
too good?! it's too good to simply kill them, why not make them suffer? that is what jail's were designed for, not an easy life until yer dead :?

Quote from Jay:
The situation is a catch 22.
that's very true, it is a lose / lose situation usually, but we can't help it by supporting the media frenzy over it. With stations like Al Jazeera and continued public hunger for more and more images and biased media coverage of each and every war or terrorist situation, it's only going to get worse.

The thing is...why are these Chechans 'terrorists' and why did they do this.

Probably has something to do with the fact that every single one of these hostage takers has seen their mother/father/son/daughter/husband/wife brutally beaten/raped and killed by the Russian Army since the break up of the Soviet Union.

To them its simple payback, to show what is happening in their country every day.
They don't care anymore, hence you get reprehensible acts like this.

To have to do something like this shows how's desperate they are for world attention.

It's one very sick and twisted Circle....it's not right.

Im gonna come hold your dog hostage, oh wait my partner daffy duck already has kekekekeke :p

Sorry just bring humour to the subject. Ask Coco what Im on about.

How do u catch a so called terroist if you dont know what you are looking for?? For all purposes a terroist is everybody, I mean I could wake up one day decide I feel like a terroist fill a car drive somewhere BOOM.

Quote from Azreal:
dude, i would rather die waving a white flag then live waving no flag :| and what the hell has political parties got to do with it?

too good?! it's too good to simply kill them, why not make them suffer? that is what jail's were designed for, not an easy life until yer dead :?

that's very true, it is a lose / lose situation usually, but we can't help it by supporting the media frenzy over it. With stations like Al Jazeera and continued public hunger for more and more images and biased media coverage of each and every war or terrorist situation, it's only going to get worse.

It was me who said it was a catch 22.

You realise that sometimes Jail is better than what they were previously living in? Jailing them is like giving them a free pass sometimes. They get food, water, shelter etc.

Quote from Unseen:
How do u catch a so called terroist if you dont know what you are looking for?? For all purposes a terroist is everybody, I mean I could wake up one day decide I feel like a terroist fill a car drive somewhere BOOM.

I would think it would take more than that to make you want to kill yourself.

Anger, Retribution, Counter-Anger, Counter-Retribution. It's a twisted circle, and also one where neither side can remove their links, they'll just cop a second dose of retribution, and a third, fourth, whatever until they are forced to hit back or die.

Azreal, you'd rather die waving a white flag then live waving no flag? Your convictions are strong, but not shared by others. To most people, use of force in self-defense is natural and acceptable.

The really troubling question is, how can we stop an enemy we cannot see?

Aravi I mean seriously.

What about the people that wake up and decide I will go shoot up my town today, or I will blow up a building, I mean not everything has to have a just decision behind it.

Quote from Unseen:
What about the people that wake up and decide I will go shoot up my town today, or I will blow up a building, I mean not everything has to have a just decision behind it.

You have a point, although there may be traces of what causes a insanity they are often not detected, so a loonie could go off anywhere.

However, there is a distinction between a loonie and a terrorist. A loonie will go off whereever, a terrorist has a hated target that they are aiming for. We also now have both problems to worry about.

Well the terrorists were planning it for several months according to reports. They had pre-planted the explosives and weapons in the gym etc. Disturbing to say the least.

When the terrorists don't care whether they live or die.....why try and talk them out of what they are doing......they want a goal, and dont care if they die as long as they achieve it. If death cant stop them from trying to reach that goal, I'm sure as hell a negotiator can't.

When a helpless and defenseless child is taken hostage, and the terrorist has every intention of killing that kid, than removing the danger from the kid in the quickest most efficient way ensures a maximum survival rate for the innocents. In this instance, its killing the terrorists.

I agree with Lataf....once they involve kids, the rules of engagement change....shot the f**kers

I heard the body count's estimated at over 300 now oO

360 i think , with over 200 "missing"

I put in the not supporting any political party as its election time and I did not want to make this turn into a Howard vs mumbles I mean that Latham bloke.

See I started already.

These ppl who took the kids and families hostage are BAD. They were going to die whatever the Russian forces did.

Pray it does not happen here.

i just loved the fact that while the storming was taking place, news channels were specifically reporting it as action by Putin's executive order.

...

then, when the next day, when the death toll was up over 200, we were told he had not authorised the attack.

you have to wonder what's going on in these civilised and democratic (cough) countries.

I was watching CNN & BBC as it happened.. they never mentioned any executive order..

They kept repeating that Putin had NOT authorised it. Later we were told thatit was purely the special forces commander at the time, he made a split second decision based upon the two explosion that occurred and the gunfire that followed.

I never completely believe what the media are saying... but when two organisations like the BBC and CNN agree on something... (when they are usually at opposite ends of the spectrum) it does make me sway towards that version of events.