What Im looking for are ideas and criticisms regarding the last DGA event. Basically any ideas where we as the comittee can make it better for you. Types of games, comps, basically anything. Here is your chance. Tell us what you want. It could be anything.
We need some ideas from you the gamers because you are what makes DGA work. We want to make DGA lans successful and bring back that buzz it had before.
Please head over to http://darwingamers.org/feedback.php to submit your feedback and you can do it anonymously if you wish.
What I have noticed lately at DGA I've been thinking lately since the last DGA, I know its a shock that I'm thinking but, the way the gamings been lately. Lately, everyones been off doing there own thing, not going around getting to know anyone else, or to check what everyone else is playing so they can join in. Nearly everyone has been sticking to their own little groups, not saying everyone but some are not worrying about what everyone else is doing.
I believe that, the best DGA I've had so far would of been DGA 34 or 35 I think it was, when everyone was playing SWAT4. Every body was having fun with this new game and even though it was a slowish type of game, it was extremely fun to play with everyone else. There was a competition, I think it was $50 going on were you had teams of 4-5 doing a co-op mission and which ever team got the highest score won the prize. Ever since that Lan, almost everyones broken off from what everyone else is playing, and not bothering to introduce themselves to someone else.
After having said all that, I believe that, maybe more Competitions that involve teams vsing another team could get people to play together alot more, and practice to beat other teams for the prize.
My Thoughts I reckon, maybe have a team game were you have a 7 vs 7 in Battlefield 2 on a 32 player map. Or a 2 vs 2 in Need for Speed Underground or Most Wanted were depending on who comes first, that team wins like if team 1 gets 1st and 4th, and team 2 get 2nd and 3rd the 2nd its a draw. SWAT4 Co-op games I reckon could probably be a big hit again :).
What I believe Even though I've only started going to the DGA this year, I have seen a dramatic decrease in the numbers of people playing a single game together, I reckon that Team Competitions are the best way to get people to play together, that way people have someone's face to rub their victory into. :D
Quote from NewbiTLorD: I reckon, maybe have a team game were you have a 7 vs 7 in Battlefield 2 on a 32 player map. Or a 2 vs 2 in Need for Speed Underground or Most Wanted were depending on who comes first, that team wins like if team 1 gets 1st and 4th, and team 2 get 2nd and 3rd the 2nd its a draw. SWAT4 Co-op games I reckon could probably be a big hit again :).
Maybe you should get some friends together and try and organise a comp? Sounds like you got some ideas, do some research with some friends or what not and let me know if you want to have a shot at organising a comp.
Yeah team games are needed. That DGA with the tekken comp was the most fun i have had at a DGA in a long time :(. BF2 and CSS comps have been tried in the past no one really bothers to make a team and having two teams enter a comp doesn't really make it enjoyable.
Maybe try focus more on setting up comps that only need 1 or 2 people per team or are free for all type games. Consol games seem to work VERY well with making these lans so much more enjoyable maybe look into this area a lot more when planning future lans.
Also i do not think the admins should be deciding on what games to base that game timetable off. Maybe have a list of games you think people will play and when they sign on at the door or register online they are forced till fill out a form voting on what games to habe on the games timetable. You could maybe keep 1 or 2 slots on the game timetable for admin chosen games/events but it would be nice to have more player choice in this. Asking people over these forums isn't really a good option as a lot of players i see there don't really post here :)
You could always get people to enter in comp as they arrive at the door, If the comps are more then 1 person per team you could always team people up with randomly chosen people. To get people to actually enter these comps you could ask them if they will be at the lan between this and this time if they say yes force them to enter the comps or at least beg a little.
Something has to be done to get people to actually plays games and then get people to play the same games. As far as gaming went at the last lan it wasn't crash hot :(
Something needs to be said about Newbits comments. I believe the DGA committee has recognised that issue and has taken steps to rectify it - the game timetable etc. But no one has really bothered....If you people want to make it better, make the effort, the dga team has layed down the foundation to do so with the gaming timetable etc. Organising comps takes a bit of effort. I think it was dropped due to a total lack of interest.
Have the organised comps teams made totally by random. Pull names out of a hat to make all of the teams. All to often you get a game where a group of people are good at the game and all the rest are average (CS comes to mind and DC). If everyone is pulled out of a hat then maybe you will get good players mixed with average players to make a fun comp. It then shouldn't matter if you win or lose the fun will be trying to make all the personalities have fun working together. This will probably make people meet other people also. All too often people just give up cause they know they are not going to beat team X.
Having a large prize for the comp only makes people want to have the best unbeatable team, maybe the prizes for comps should be just pizza or drinks or something else. It's all about fun not the winning, isn't it?
Quote from Longtom: Have the organised comps teams made totally by random. Pull names out of a hat to make all of the teams. All to often you get a game where a group of people are good at the game and all the rest are average (CS comes to mind and DC). If everyone is pulled out of a hat then maybe you will get good players mixed with average players to make a fun comp. It then shouldn't matter if you win or lose the fun will be trying to make all the personalities have fun working together. This will probably make people meet other people also. All too often people just give up cause they know they are not going to beat team X.
Having a large prize for the comp only makes people want to have the best unbeatable team, maybe the prizes for comps should be just pizza or drinks or something else. It's all about fun not the winning, isn't it?
i have been wanting to try this for a while. Not sure when the last random team comp was on
Tachi - To the idea of having people sign up at the door for what games they would like to play, it's a great idea but a few issues will arrive with it. Pushing people through the door, handling money, checking their rego/name/membership, giving them 2 raffle tickets and a sticker to put on their case = really hard to keep up with. Also if you want to start a timetable at say 2pm? Probably about 30-40 people would have arrived by then. Of that 40 people 25 people may take the time to fill out the form. Then time will have to be spent tallying up the form and then basing the timetable on 25 people of which only about 10 people will actively take part in.
As for filling out a form with rego (which is a more piratical idea), it could work.. but people get annoyed when they don't know what games are being played prior to the lan so they have not had sufficient time to download patches and purchase games. Which will also be a problem with the form at the door idea.
It's just one big loop, there is no way out of it.
However what we could do is every lan have people fill out a form for the NEXT lan on what games they would like to see on the gamers timetable ;) That's one smart idea Tachi :)
Longtom - I don't know if you had noticed or not the amount of people who put their name down for the Quake 3 comp. I think it was a total of 32 people. Of that original number about 20 players ended up taking part. Around 5 people came up to myself or Seqo and said 'Hey I have to pull out' but thats it. So as you can understand getting people to stick to a comp is very hard, if we pulled names out of a hat, we will have people coming up to us saying 'someone so doesn't want to play anymore we are short' which makes us want to pull our hair out. This problem could be combated if we found someone truly dedicated to running a comp every lan and has great organisation skills and back up plan after back up plan.
But yes I think comps should be a challenge not a complete flogging. If anyone is considering running a comp for EVO this will be some good notes to take down. So far no one has PM me with any comp plans. Hoping someone out there is at least passionate about running some comps or can now understand why its so difficult to meet the expectation of some gamers suggestions no matter how brilliant they maybe.
Longtom indeed has a really great idea i reckon, but i think we, the "Attendee's" should atleast try to help to make these good competition idea's go through :)
The idea of Random Teaming depending on who wants to be in the comp does help with meeting new people, also gets people out of their small groups of friends. New people and not knowing how good they are means more effort into the practice rounds before the comp which does make it more enjoyable :D and depending on how good that teams performance is means that the newly met people will begin to stick with them and meet eachothers own small groups of friends.
But with longtoms idea, yeah, does require alot more effort that usual :), maybe i could mix up a random generator in Excel or Access to choose the teams.
Edit: Oh ya, About the amount of people attending these competitions, i believe its depending on which game it is, like the last lans Quake 3 comp, i played and i ended up getting bored so i went off and got Addicted to Dance Dance Revolution. I reckon SWAT 4 was a hit, but seeing what games everyone plays now, everybody would probably get bored with its "Slowness". We could always have a CTF match of Call of Duty 2 or some other game.
What we could do for a competition is have a coin toss between 2 teams, which ever team wins the coin toss selects the game and game type of which to face eachother in, that could always work, but yeah, just gotta think about the amount of work being put into it too, also gotta consider peoples machine specs.
Quote from NewbiTLorD: Edit: Oh ya, About the amount of people attending these competitions, i believe its depending on which game it is, like the last lans Quake 3 comp, i played and i ended up getting bored so i went off and got Addicted to Dance Dance Revolution.
:\ You only had to play one 15min round. Unless you made it to the top 4 on each server. If you don't like a game that is being played as a comp, please do not waste our time in putting your hand up for it, or let us know you are pulling out asap so we can make adjustments.
One of the reasons comps work for teams that have played together ..
Go back in the days - Syndicate / SB / DNC / BM / ROT / Is they all played together and going to a LAN with a half decent price was a way of putting some hard work together.
What you are suggesting is for a team that plays together, to go to Darwins only LAN and then split up becuase other teams dont want to get beat .. sounds kinda silly to me.
No matter what game it is, if a team is there as a group it shouldnt be penalised because of somebody else who isnt as good.
It was all about being mates, and trying to outdo eachothers ego's, kurt usually won on the bigheaded department but thats why it was truely enjoyable. the companionship. and i dont think DGA can do anything to bring that back. people have moved on. it was enevitable.
with all these new people coming to lans, nobody knows everyone anymore, people want to leech more than they do play (most of the time because they get flogged by good players, probably because alot of people dont have DSL) and there are too many gamers that want to play too many different games.
i really dont know how you can fix the problem other than make the lans one type of game, for RTS gamers, or FPS gamers, or RPG gamers or whichever.
I think the fundementals arent in the organisation in DGA itself, but the gamers. something you cannot fix.
Quote from Unseen: What you are suggesting is for a team that plays together, to go to Darwins only LAN and then split up becuase other teams dont want to get beat .. sounds kinda silly to me.
Sorry um.. what teams that play together, can you name a clan that still goes to DGA? I can't. I would assume any clans that are left are online clans, so I don't see why they can't give it a break to go to DGA and seperate. I think playing with different people is a great way of getting new tatics and possible invites to online clans. Even the possibility of creating a new clan.
If there are organised clans that would make it hell of a lot easier. I'm sure no one would have any troubles with organising a clan war of some sort. It saves so much time than chasing people up that are short in their team, their clan their responsibility.
Speaking as a gamer...
I tend to agree with heretic. Gamers have come and gone, DGA knows there is a problem with the gaming competition side of things and are trying to fix it, but there is only so much DGA can do. Half of it is up to the gamers. Put your selves is a organise manner make it easier for the DGA officials. If there is a comp on and you have your name down, you play in that comp. You don't decide 5mins before it starts that you don't want to play anymore. If everyone actually cooperated, participated when they have put their names down, have the game ready to be played with up to date patches, competitions would be made so much easier to everyone.
Even if you can't play the game it's always fun to try. I think I participated in almost every comp prior to coming an official. I have never won a single game and have no idea how to play some games, but just playing with friends and having a good laugh it great. DGA can never please everyone.. just give everything a try.
How about extending the usefulness of the timetable to also include when competition times are on, and other special events.
Like if a team of people decided to have a comp, they can forward the details to DGA, and it can be put up in a place on the timetable.
This can also go on concurrently with the existing timetable that mark what games is recommend to be played at what times.
I believe the timetable would be more useful this way, where the community (ie the gamers) choose what to have in the line-up, even if it's having to grab the information the forums (which I understand not all gamers use). Perhaps even have a vote on the DGA'a intranet site, make it more dynamic.
i think 50% or less of the DGA attendees actualy browse around on GU Forum, maybe having some sort of voting poll for games could help with the time tables, just about everyone that goes to the lans enjoys playing the same games everyone else does. Even before locked in DGA events, we could have votes on games to be played for future events.
Im not in Darwin anymore so not going to push anything ..
From what I could see happening was that with the lack of games to play as a team at DGA is why you now see no clans there ..
If there was the chance I reckon you would see them there ..
But how do you fix that ?? no idea.
Its an Idea's thread, so really you shouldnt defend against what people say .. Take it on board, print it out, take it too a meeting and discuss it .. Try and fix what people are saying here .. Dont defend against them
Make a games timetable with less games for longer periods. I can tell you I wont get bored playing the same game for 5 hours strait IF there 30 other lanners playing too. Its when Im playing with 3 other players I get bored quick. I dont care for all this leeching going on. IF YOUR COMPUTER CANNOT RUN THE GAMES DONT COME.
Unseen I want to share my opinion on topics, not just as an official. So if it makes sense I disliked your idea because I agree more with other ideas. I did try to explain to you why I didn't like the idea. Im hoping other officials are taking the time to read this thread so they can discuss points I don't pick up on. Anyway names out of a hat idea wouldn't happen every single time a comp came up.
How long do you suggest the games in the timetable go for Wortel? Currently they go for about 2-3hrs depending on the time of day/night.
If you have some friends that attend DGA and don't browse these forums, chuck them the link every now and again when something interesting is happening, or when we could use opinions... like now.
Just so no one gets the wrong impression, I do thank everyone for taking the time to explain ideas and debate them. Please keep them coming, they are very interesting and I will be taking some of these ideas forward. Feel free to debate me out on any of my responses if you think I'm in correct in anyway.
I think 3 hours is good for a timetable game. Gives you an hour to sort out patches etc. and a solid 2 hours to play. I wouldn't mind seeing a come back of CTF games. I believe they are fun :)
CTF is the best i reckon :D it means u gotta "Strategicaly" think out how to trick the enemy to get there flag, requires lotsa team work and good sportsmen-ship to have the better team :) speed and accuracy alone isnt good enough to win depending who your vsing and how they predict your moves :D
How long do you suggest the games in the timetable go for Wortel? Currently they go for about 2-3hrs depending on the time of day/night.
I dont get to spend any time at all playing games online so when I turn up at a lan and play something its usually for the first time it can take hours to figure out how to play effectively and longer to fill a server up to a resonable level.
I dont like spending entire lans learning new games. If Im going to put in the effort to get used to playing a new game whatever it might be I want to play with many people for many hours.
Maybe 6-8 hours would be enough. If you limit something to 3 hours its dead before it can take root and grow. Its once people have learned the controls and the skills in the game that they are comfortable to jump in anytime and play. This is called having a player base and will keep server player numbers strong.
I don't think we would be able to extend the gaming timetable to more than 3hrs, unless there was enough support for it from you guys. The only way I think you will be able to combat the problem of learning the skills of the game is if you take a moment at home to install the games and have a bit of a run around prior to the lan. I know its not the same but thats all I can think of. Usually if a game is going off in the timetable it ends up going over time. Also the timetable is only there as a sort of guideline not something you have to play. Its main purpose is to provide a variety of games with a decent amount of players, as you may remember people use to get annoyed because not enough games were being played or enough variety.
Does anyone else feel that not enough time is spent in the games on the timetable and perhaps there are too many games?
I personaly believe its enough time. Even with new games they are all usually some sort of FPS, I might spend 3hrs learning the game and then by next lan I would be right.
Quote from DVD: Even with the incorrect spelling, that would be quite a trick. Exactly dvd! its a Trick within a Trick to Trick those who ought to be tricked by its trickyness.
dont be anti leech... the majority of lan goers are leechers and the lans used to get fully registered alot quicker before when leechers werent persecuted :'(
Quote from phillip: dont be anti leech... the majority of lan goers are leechers and the lans used to get fully registered alot quicker before when leechers werent persecuted :'(
Nice thought......but you've got buckly's and none of getting that accomplished nowdays
Quote from w00p: Its main purpose is to provide a variety of games with a decent amount of players, as you may remember people use to get annoyed because not enough games were being played or enough variety.
Its this decent amount of players part that has me stumped. What I call a decent amount of players is 20. When did you see any 20 player games going off? Point me that way I dont care what game it might be if I can play with 20 players on a lan all day I wont get bored. We all will get much better at the game playing with such full servers and low pings. I put this into the context for FPS gaming, its the game type I like and it fits more players per server.
Quote from w00p: Sorry um.. what teams that play together, can you name a clan that still goes to DGA? I can't. I would assume any clans that are left are online clans, so I don't see why they can't give it a break to go to DGA and seperate. I think playing with different people is a great way of getting new tatics and possible invites to online clans. Even the possibility of creating a new clan.
Well -=YDF=- is there in numbers every LAN. But when was the last team comp on? The idea of picking people out of a hat... im not sure about it. I would like to play with my team since most dont really play online. But that said, I can see picking people out of a hat and going against team members could be a bit of FUN too.
Maybe we could do tournaments like with the upcoming EVO where we can make our own teams and battle for bigger and better prizes. (Sign up on the site) And other times have friendly competitions where you pick players who want to play out of a hat, and play for free cokes or other things. (Ask around on the day, and players who want to join in place their names into a hat)
yeah i recokn names out of a hat for small prize comps would b a great idea (although obviously not for this upcomming evo). it would prompt ppl to meet other ppl, it would even up the comp and it would make the comps less serious and more fun and it woudl make the comps bigger and more inclusive
What I think would be good for DGA events would be Basic 54G wireless Access Point for people with laptops or wireless cards, for people who game this would be more than enough for gaming.
Although I will probably be stoned by Kronk for being a hypocrit, it would be good to see some more Enemy Territory at the next LAN. It is a free cross-platform FPS that is loads of fun.
Will be happy to assist with servers/comps etc for ET.
On a Wireless note, I am happy to help out with Internal Wireless access for DGA. My preference would be to use an OLSR based Adhoc Mesh network. These kind of wireless networks are built for network saturation, as it uses multiple paths to negotiate traffic flow. Using intelligent dynamic routing (measures link quality and everything) it should perform quite well with a mixture of bulk (FTP) and interactive (game) traffic happening on the network. Not to say it won't lag at complete saturation, but it will definately be a better solution than a standard Infrastructure (client -> AP) setup.
oh yeah. go the ET!!!! lol my first ever online shooter! Engineer with noob nade all the way! stoped playing cause the servers were getting underpopulated
oh you treacherous turncoat swamp rat.... At the LAN I pointed the server out to you and you blatantly denied your roots... now your stating otherwise...
Aside from the DGA game server, does DGA have an official "services" server, because what would be nice, is a server that could host things like a bit torrent tracker for the lan, before people scream about leaching and omg people could make there own torrent with movies!!11!!1one!!1OMFGBBQSPLOSION
You should be able to lock the tracker and have official files only, as in "Patches, mods, linux iso's" etc. Then we can share the bandwidth, so the official servers that serve out dhcp and the likes won't get smashed. This isn't a major issue with smaller lans, but it can help iron out any bugs for when things like evo rock up.
Quote from Rip: Aside from the patch's ive put on the DGA Games Ftp server i installed, is there any plans on a better way to distribute any patch's/mods/etc ?
Why yes! and I have allready implemented it!! I call it the internet!! Once it takes off and gains popularity I will be rich!! Rich I tells you!!
If you want people to put together teams and enter a competition (or even bother going to a lan) you need to make sure there is a decent ammount of insentive (eg prize money etc) . I dont mean for people to take this the wrong way, sure lans are for fun .. but there are also people that play for the competition. If there is nothing worth competing for, there is no way your going to get many people putting in an effort to organise teams for BF2 , CSS etc.
This is why CPL and other large lan events are so popular, they have BIG prizes .. take a look at how big poker tornaments have become. (do you think anybody would show up if there was no cash involved?)
big prizes make people take things a little more seriously and it almost garentee's that there will be bigger turn outs.. (darwin doesnt have much of a population though)
for bigger prizes you also have to look at entry fee's and stuff like that, works both ways i guess. If its not possible for you guys to offer large ammounts of cash lol, perhaps consider hard to find items that need to be organised , eg nice mousepads, or a set of shirts for the winning team..
a Soldat server would be great, soldat comps would be great to watch :) plus it is small and free, and easy to get it up and running with low spec machines.
Cheers Rip
EDIT: Maybe a dancing monkey as well would be fun to watch...
What about setting the web server up at DGA and have it linked with all the latest stuff for that session of DGA?, as in have it linking to all the patches, mods, gamestats(as in how many people are playing on what server), IRC Webclient, etc.. the list is endless, but it would be great for a 1 stop web portal stop for all the gaming needs...
Ok, Well it isnt finished and I borrowed some DGA graphics and the DGA site as a template, but this is what i mean.... http://wirelesschicken.homelinux.org/DGA/index.php Im not wanting to take anything over :P but just to give you a general idea of what im talking about...
Quote from Burk: Rip, we alerady have an intranet which is being developed, seperate to the website.
It does need to be improved and developed further though.
Yeah I know, I was just trying to show the kind of features that could be added to the site to have a one stop web portal for the lans, mainly to make things easier and with links to all the patches instead of talking to everyone asking if they have a patch, and can they share.. etc.. I have found things like this in the past a bit frustrating..