Cannonball Run For The Nt!

DAMN YOU CLAIRE MARTIN!

Stay the **** away from stuff I like!

She took my carpark... now she's pissing all over the prospects of our glorious one-of-a-kind events. This woman must be stopped!

Makes sense not to support it.

eh? how do you figure that?

4 people died last time it ran...

3 people died here playing grade cricket last season.

all it is is sanctioned open road race. fricking dangerous. oh lets combine normal road traffic with zomg superfast!!1! cars

people die in almost every sport - the sports evolve new safety measures to prevent it happening in future. life goes on... for some sure, but it goes on.

How many people have died during the Cannonball run, since its inception?
Not many I'd think, compared with other motorsports/sports.

Bring it back, it was an awesome event :)

lol
it goes on ..
It goes on to our streets and thats why darwin has the biggest road toll.

I'm a fan of fast nice cars but I hate to think about more peoples legs gettin shanked out of there smashed up cars and oohh look there's his head in the back.
On my way home from florence falls on saturday I was lucky enough to see a fire on the left hand side "caused by a new car Which must of blew up after crashing", not sure but it looked cool.

Quote from Milenko:
How many people have died during the Cannonball run, since its inception?
Not many I'd think, compared with other motorsports/sports.

Bring it back, it was an awesome event :)

Actually:

1 race, 4 dead.

Nice ratio.

150~ entrants, 4 dead

As said combining the average road user with speed freaks is not sensible. Sure, hold the race but at least close down the road for the time its on or hold it in stages.

Bring back the cannonball... **** you claire

Quote from Evil:
Makes sense not to support it.

uh huh NOT - id like to see it run again. I didnt get to go to the last one - sucks to be me :)

So its fine for people like Sam Newman to come up here and flog the f*ck out of his lambo but you dont want something that has safety and other issues looked at to be run on the same road....

Twas driver error that caused the death the the 2 japanese drivers and the 2 marshals......was just thier time maybe but still it wasnt meant to happen - read the bottom of the tickets for Supercars next time - if you die its unlucky.

also agree with iscariot - close of the sections each day for a time then only the racers run the risk of any accidents rather than (a) any of us or (b) stupid tourists who have no idea of how to drive up here - and seem to have a habit or wiping them selves out

I reckon it would be awesome to run it again - maybe every few years..

Quote from paladin:
3 people died here playing grade cricket last season.

comparing it to cricket where how many hundreds play a week seems a bit funny

im not convinced either way, i think it should be able to organized well enought of make sure there is minimal chance of death & injuries

hey Bad Crispy, will the van be ready? :grin: :p

hey if they wanna race let them

(Post from Simon Linklater under my sig)

The road WAS closed in stages for the original race so it was only race drivers and officials on the road during any one stage.

A Japanese driver made a critical driving error at a checkpoint and ploughed into Keith 'Slim' Pritchard and Tim Linklater killing the driver, Tim, Slim and the co pilot.

Ironically the speed at which the Ferrari was travelling when it entered the check point was 100km/h. The main issue with the accident was that the "lay by" that the check point was located on was not swept ie was covered in gravel. So high speed was not actually a factor.

"Race cage" Allan Moffit's company was found to have been partially at fault, as well as the NT Government and CAMS. This would explain why the NT government is so against the idea.

CAMS (those bunch of ...@#%$#@@# ) wouldnt endorse the event until Race Cage said they would do it without them. At that point they promptly turned around and took the money and ran. They gave no advice as to check point setup or safety before the event, but a lot of 'I told you so' afterward. /end bitter rant!

I for one would have some reservations about a new cannonball but think it should be looked into IF, and only if the safety issues are well considered.

Look at the Targa in Tassie they have had deaths. Motorsport is dangerous for the competitors, spectators and officials. But safety is important.
When we (yes I was an official) were "trained" (I put that very loosely) there was no safety training, no advice on how to set the check points up so as to avoid accidents.

If this were to run again it should be run fully under CAMS with Cams accredited marshals.

As for the two Japanese competitors, they made a small mistake and paid with their lives. If they had had their helmets on they would have walked away unscathed. Tim and Slim were good mates and did enjoy the event as did I untill the accedent. The event was a very big boost for Darwin and brought with it a lot of money. It would be a good event for Darwin as the V8s are.
Milenko you are a fool
Simon Linklater

Funny really.. Clare Martin refuses to support the Cannon Ball Run due to wanting safer roads in the NT, yet she still keeps an unrestricted speed limit on one of the longest highways in Australia. Go figure.

Quote from Phoenix_inferno:

Milenko you are a fool
Simon Linklater

did i miss something here?

Quote from Jono:
Funny really.. Clare Martin refuses to support the Cannon Ball Run due to wanting safer roads in the NT, yet she still keeps an unrestricted speed limit on one of the longest highways in Australia. Go figure.

Hey dont bring that into it.. i like the no speed limit rule :)

Quote from insidious:
hey Bad Crispy, will the van be ready? :grin: :p

if I get of my ass :p - almost finished one side of the body rotator :D so the floorpan is not far of being redone, and then i can make the chasis look pretty too -rare spares are soo gonna love me shortly

Quote from Jono:
Funny really.. Clare Martin refuses to support the Cannon Ball Run due to wanting safer roads in the NT, yet she still keeps an unrestricted speed limit on one of the longest highways in Australia. Go figure.

I also love the no speed limit rule. WHY THE HELL would you want to sit on 110 from here to Alice for 1500ks?????????????

One of the things i like about the territory is that we are not under most of the same stupid rules as the other states on roads, and dont really see the need for that to change anytime soon. Hence the posibility that the Territory may once again see the Cannonbal Run :-D due to the wonderful open speed limit !

lol don't get me wrong, really doesn't bother me to be honest. I got no problems with them running it again :)

Quote from iscariot:
Actually:

1 race, 4 dead.

Nice ratio.

150~ entrants, 4 dead.

So the cannonball Run has been run once?
Newsflash: Australia is not the epicenter of the world.

Quote from Phoenix_inferno:

Milenko you are a fool
Simon Linklater

Care to explain your rationale ?
Im sorry to hear that you lost 2 mates in the accident.
But are you calling me a fool because like Iscariot, you think that was the Only event of its kind to be held?

Your very own post indicates that the accident was due to :
A - The Driver and Navigator not wearing proper safety gear (ie, helmets)
B - The Race Cage was faulty?
C - Lack of safety training for officials.

I dont see the logic nor the point you are trying to convey in your post. Are you for or against?
You said you are for the event as long as there are sufficient safety measures. This would be a given, considering the the events history in the NT, no?

There was an unfortunate accident that took the lives of 4 people.
Does that mean it should be banned for good? No.
If we used that mentality then we'd see the loss motorsport in its entirety.

Remind me, why am I the fool for wanting to see the evnet return?
kthnx.

I for one would love to see the Cannonball run event held here again. As of the year it was run, I believe it was the first government sanctioned LEGAL canonball run in the world. Don't quote me on it though, I just don't know that much about it. I was fortunate enough to have seen the run take off. I remember the sound of that lovely F40, and especially a very modified V8 pickup that was loud as sin, shaking the ground. (for me, I'd never felt anything like it at that age (14)).

I would love to actually have the chance to enter such an event as well, now that I have the means, and the funds to do so.

As for safety, since 1994, safety has come such a long way, and while it will never be perfect, the practices even in those days are possitively medievil. While I won't say an acciedent won't happen, I feel that certain conditions would be different in this event. The typical knee jerk reaction after the first CBRun was to limit everybody to 180kph, even though, technically, high speeds were not the factor resulting in the death of the people.

What ever the original story was, we should at least learn from it, make it safer for everybody by ensuring that rules are in place. Most people who'd be interested in this event would likely pay attention to them, and stay on course.

a few peaple have mentioned the way we have different laws and thats cool, thought you might like this

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3875170E8478D171CA256CAE0016268F

forgive me for only finding the stats from 2001 by the looks, but the part i like is where the NT has 25 fatalities / per 100,000 population double that of next worse being Tas, now my maths isnt that great but is it 3 times the national average?

i wonder why we should tighten our road rules?:o

Quote from insidious:
i wonder why we should tighten our road rules?:o

You're the type of person that actually believes that politicians should all baby us and keep us safe in little padded boxes our entire lives, aren't you? I also bet you think Speed Cameras save lives...?

Why do we need to 'tighten our road rules'... can you state what's wrong with them? Besides the knee-jerk, "but what about open speed limits" ?

I seriously wish people would get off this 'speed kills' bandwagon that is so rampant in Australia.

Statistics for 2005 in the NT

If anything in this country needs to be 'tightened' it's Driver training.

/rant.

Actually, the reason we have so many road deaths, is that few other places have to deal with aboriginals sleeping on the road. it sort of skewes the statistic. Also we have a far higher proportion of our population as rural. Compare darwin's communtiy to the rest of the country, i doubt you will see much difference. even less if factors such as legless aboriginals/ferals are taken out

I don't think it's as simple as running it down as numbers though. Our rates are high, but the number of people dying on the roads is not necessarily as high as our southern counterparts.

--- Please don't missunderstand me, even one death is one too many on any road. ---

Those numbers are however, somewhat outdated. Is it possible to get more recent numbers? From what I understand, we've been pretty solid (unfortunately) with the rate of fatalities, but the percentage has been dropping.

Those numbers also, don't indicate the demographic of casualties... Are they tourists? Were they in a car at the time? Where were they driving? Was alcohol an issue (because it's likely that it may have been)? There are so many conditions that a broad statement that says "speed kills" is simply not accurate enough to be true. From my understanding, the fatal incidents that involve speeding, occur on roads where marked limits are.

But hey, that might be a reach, Spongy or Lataf (or if there are any other police here now) may likely be able to shed more light on it.

I don't think it's necessary to say such an event would result in hooliganism simply by being run on public roads.

arent we all missing the point. she doesnt support it. so what? boo hoo, it'll happen anyway. just because she doesnt like it wont change shit.

Quote from Seqo:
You're the type of person that actually believes that politicians should all baby us and keep us safe in little padded boxes our entire lives, aren't you? I also bet you think Speed Cameras save lives...?

is this the right place to be debating this? coz im happy to!!:D

pollies shouldnt baby us but when we have stats that look like that, we are not in line with the rest of the country and they have a completely set of different rules, surely you dont have to think hard that something needs to be changed!!

as far as speed cameras saving lives, i would need to look at the stats, but i would be surprised if they didnt, i love watching people slow down around the schools & hot spots that they used to fly through.

im guessing your one of those people who dont like getting caught when you break the law?

Quote from Seqo:

Why do we need to 'tighten our road rules'... can you state what's wrong with them? Besides the knee-jerk, "but what about open speed limits" ?

can i state whats wrong with them? im no expert but the 2 that stand out to me are the 0.08 and speed limits. the point is there is something obviously wrong

Quote from Seqo:

I seriously wish people would get off this 'speed kills' bandwagon that is so rampant in Australia.

do you think the government runs these campaigns for fun?

Quote from Seqo:
If anything in this country needs to be 'tightened' it's Driver training.

i could not agree more :grin:

don't forget that bucketloads of toursits blowing their wads over the open speed limit often seem to forget they arent on a dual carriageway going down the stuart.

Remember that 4 wheel drive a few years back? the tourists had just bought ice-creams, got back onto the highway, up to a decent speed, popped a tyre - driver only had one hand on the wheel due to ice cream, lost control and the lot of em were cleaned up by a semi. Sort of thing seems to be news at least once a month. So I'd like to see those figures with just local deaths for each states.

Quote from insidious:
a few peaple have mentioned the way we have different laws and thats cool, thought you might like this

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3875170E8478D171CA256CAE0016268F

forgive me for only finding the stats from 2001 by the looks, but the part i like is where the NT has 25 fatalities / per 100,000 population double that of next worse being Tas, now my maths isnt that great but is it 3 times the national average?

i wonder why we should tighten our road rules?:o

OK, if I had a dollar for every story headlined "Speeding Youth Crashes Car" or some variation and then when you read the actual story its because the little cock head turned off his head lights. Or he was trying to do fulleh sick drifts in his excel. Or he thought he could handbrake that wet corner with a 1m drop on either side. But hey, who cares it must have been the speeding.

Speed cameras save lives? So hiding around a corner behind a bush with a camera is saving lives huh? According to you, its fun watching people slow down...which is all fine and good, they should be anyway, however in a good portion of cases, if not most, that never happens. Why? Because they are deliberately hiding to bust people. Come to Vic, we get them hide at the bottom of a hill behind a bush and then send you a "10 fine for doing 51 in a 50 zone. Or they hide at speed changes where it drops from 90 to say 60 and get everyone who isnt at or below 60 the instant they get to the sign. And to add to that I've seen people get pulled over for driving too slow doing 65 in a 90 zone. So if they want to they can book you for slowing down too much.

Another thing, on the main Freeway to Melbourne, a straight, 4 (I think) lane wide stretch of road it's 100. There are enough cameras from one end to the other for someone to lose their licence on a single trip to Melbourne.

If they were even remotely interested in saving lives, they wouldnt hide to guarantee fine income, they would make it as clear as day so people WOULD slow down. Sure people dont get punished....but which is more important? Someone speeding and getting punished or someone choosing to slow down for the camera and as a result no hitting that kid.

I am in no way advocating speeding, if you do and you get fined, suck it up. I'm in no way innocent but you don't see me crying about getting a fine, I just suck it up and deal with it. What I DO have a problem with is the shady crap to guarantee a fine. If you think speed cameras save lives and it's not revenue raising you are very naive.

Edit: BTW, the government pushes the speed thing because it's easy. Which is cheaper do you think? Running a "ZOMG teh speed kills" campaign with a few billboards and a TV advertisement or running a driver training course and making every single person attend it and putting in stronger testing of drivers. I'll give you a hint, it's not the one that teaches people how to actually drive a car.

Wrath your narrow minded view makes it very difficult to debate,

but the jist of it is you dont beleive speeding is a contributing factor to our death tolls, and speed cameras are not helping slow people down.

is that right?

Incorrect. Speeding does contribute, however its not the be all end all and is DEFINATELY not the biggest problem. If you look into the details or probably 75% or more of driving accidents where the person was actually speeding you'll find one of the following things:

*Trying to do a Fast and the Furious
*Turned off headlights
*Swerving through traffic
*Running red lights
*Not indicating
*Not looking and sideswiping a car
*Drinking
*Blowout

In all cases it was either nothing to do with speed that caused the accident or it wouldn't have made on iota of difference. No people shouldn't speed, speed limits are there for a reason, but with the way that speeding is made out to be the main cause of road accidents is just plain dumb.

As for speed cameras - sure they slow people down. But if not visible people are going to go "Oh ****, speeding fine" when they check the mail, pay for it and continue speeding. They never slowed down for the area they got the fine so there was nothing gained from it other than cash. Sure, they may speed up again once out of sight of the camera but they would do that either way whether they got a fine or not, only difference is if they know its there they will at least slow down for a small section which is better than nothing.

The biggest factor of road fatalities is peoples stupidity and because it's too easy to get a licence. I can drive quite fine but when I went for my licence, I never even did a hill start, reverse parallel park, hell I dont think I even went through a traffic light or roundabout. Fact is a lot of the people in these accidents should never be allowed to drive in the first place. If we had half decent driver training and not "You managed to turn a few corners and indicate a few times and stop - here's your licence" then I think that would have a bigger impact.

What I believe is that much of what we consider as fact, is just speculation.
Until we hear from someone with some authority on the details, then we can't really say too much about what is the cause of our death toll.

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/rss/content/safer_people/programs_resources/2004_road_toll_review.htm

Quote from Wrathlon:
Incorrect. Speeding does contribute, however its not the be all end all and is DEFINATELY not the biggest problem. If you look into the details or probably 75% or more of driving accidents where the person was actually speeding you'll find one of the following things:

*Trying to do a Fast and the Furious
*Turned off headlights
*Swerving through traffic
*Running red lights
*Not indicating
*Not looking and sideswiping a car
*Drinking
*Blowout

In all cases it was either nothing to do with speed that caused the accident or it wouldn't have made on iota of difference. No people shouldn't speed, speed limits are there for a reason, but with the way that speeding is made out to be the main cause of road accidents is just plain dumb.

As for speed cameras - sure they slow people down. But if not visible people are going to go "Oh ****, speeding fine" when they check the mail, pay for it and continue speeding. They never slowed down for the area they got the fine so there was nothing gained from it other than cash. Sure, they may speed up again once out of sight of the camera but they would do that either way whether they got a fine or not, only difference is if they know its there they will at least slow down for a small section which is better than nothing.

The biggest factor of road fatalities is peoples stupidity and because it's too easy to get a licence. I can drive quite fine but when I went for my licence, I never even did a hill start, reverse parallel park, hell I dont think I even went through a traffic light or roundabout. Fact is a lot of the people in these accidents should never be allowed to drive in the first place. If we had half decent driver training and not "You managed to turn a few corners and indicate a few times and stop - here's your licence" then I think that would have a bigger impact.

dammit.....i agree with just about everything you say here :D

i do think we should not adopt the attitude of if you cant fix everything dont fix anything, if we can improve one aspect ie. speeding by shock campaigns then why not?

i think the speed cameras work well in darwin at the mo, i still see them in trouble spots, ie where i have seen accidents in the past, are the speed cameras down there privately run or are they still done by the police

The SA stats have some NT stats there as well. Interesting that we don't seem to have the information out there as well.

Quote from insidious:
i do think we should not adopt the attitude of if you cant fix everything dont fix anything, if we can improve one aspect ie. speeding by shock campaigns then why not?

I agree here, but at the same time the other areas which are of, at the very least, equal importance, all need to be addressed as well. The problem is as is happening here, speeding is being used as a scapegoat...I mean the example of deaths they are using and speed is such a pathetic example as the two things were completely unrelated - the accident had nothing to do with the speed they were travelling, it was poor organisation/setup and they weren't speeding anyway.

Quote from insidious:
do you think the government runs these campaigns for fun?

No, they run these campaigns because they make major profits from fines issued. If they were so adamant on speed limits saving lives... then why do they count on speeding fines from Fixed and Handheld cameras in order to meet their promised budget obligations? ala, Victoria.

Quote:
as far as speed cameras saving lives, i would need to look at the stats, but i would be surprised if they didnt, i love watching people slow down around the schools & hot spots that they used to fly through.

Only to speed up once they pass the van again? Yeh. That worked. The entire idea of the Speed Camera was to put it in Federally Funded Black Spot areas... Yet they don't. Across the country they put them in areas that would net them the most profit. The amount of times I've seen a Camera around the hidden corner along Vanderlin Drv between Casuarina Square and the Lee Point roundabout is phenomenal... they catch a shiteload of people, that's for damn sure.... but have you ever seen/heard of a major accident on this stretch of 60km/h road? Nope, and I've lived less than 200metres away for 11 years.

Quote:
im guessing your one of those people who dont like getting caught when you break the law?

You'd guess wrong. If I cop a fine, so be it. I've copped three in my driving life, one of those I disputed and won. If I get caught, I certainly know that I've done the wrong thing... if I believe I was in the right, I dispute it.

Aegis, spot on mate. International and Interstate tourists are a pretty big problem in the Territory. A lot have never driven a 4x4, yet hire those to travel around in. Most don't drive to the conditions that are prevalent, whether that be extreme heat or dust or monsoonal conditions, frost or even bushfires reducing visibility.

Wrathlon, couldn't agree more. Speed cameras will never be anything except a revenue raising exercise... Anybody else remember the speeding fine fiasco across Victoria earlier this year/late last? Millions of dollars were spent fixing cameras, millions more on compensating those that paid even when the camera's were faulty... Why not millions into better roads? What about a better driver education system? Its too freaking hard for them, and doesn't net them any profit in the end. Speed cameras do.

Steve, read my link. Whilst it is pretty non-specific... it talks about seat belts and alcohol being the major contributors. Victoria has a remarkably versatile liitle Java tool called Crashstats on the Vic Roads site which aggregates all the fatal crashes and gives comprehensive information. A quick going over revealed that most had not had 'speed' as a major contributor to the accident.

Also, none of these statistics take into account harsh weather conditions or the myriad of other factors, fatigue being a prominent one. Also, with the NT, small population means one persons death is more prominent on the statistics.

Basically, what Wrathlon said hits the nail dead on... Speed increases the severity of a crash when it occurs and is a contributing factor to a portion of accidents, but to say it is the cause is downright ignorance. ( <- not directed at anyone, I just hear it all the goddamn time... media, pollies etc)

Seqo.

bah this is getting old now

Quote from Seqo:
No, they run these campaigns because they make major profits from fines issued. If they were so adamant on speed limits saving lives... then why do they count on speeding fines from Fixed and Handheld cameras in order to meet their promised budget obligations? ala, Victoria.

i dont debate that there is revenue raising happening, by why not make money off people breaking the law? iknow i have slowed down since the cameras were introduced, i have noticed many people slowing down in the danger spots where the cameras usualy are. Thats enough proof for me.

Quote from Seqo:

Only to speed up once they pass the van again? Yeh. That worked. The entire idea of the Speed Camera was to put it in Federally Funded Black Spot areas... Yet they don't. Across the country they put them in areas that would net them the most profit. The amount of times I've seen a Camera around the hidden corner along Vanderlin Drv between Casuarina Square and the Lee Point roundabout is phenomenal... they catch a shiteload of people, that's for damn sure.... but have you ever seen/heard of a major accident on this stretch of 60km/h road? Nope, and I've lived less than 200metres away for 11 years.

yes, a close freind of mine was t-boned trying to get across into wagaman, and i have seen more than a couple of crash scenes there.

so here we go again, if you cant fix everything just do nothing?

Quote from Seqo:

You'd guess wrong. If I cop a fine, so be it. I've copped three in my driving life, one of those I disputed and won. If I get caught, I certainly know that I've done the wrong thing... if I believe I was in the right, I dispute it.

fair enough, and i apologize for that remark, however while you are sick of people complaining about speed killing, i am sick of people whinging about the government / police enforcing the law

Quote from Seqo:

Aegis, spot on mate. International and Interstate tourists are a pretty big problem in the Territory. A lot have never driven a 4x4, yet hire those to travel around in. Most don't drive to the conditions that are prevalent, whether that be extreme heat or dust or monsoonal conditions, frost or even bushfires reducing visibility.

my original comment is that the road rules hear need reveiwing, not just the speeding part, now these rules apply to everyone driving on nt roads, black, white, german, hot lesbian swedish backpackers with big knockers, whoever, our rules need to incorporate these things

Quote from Seqo:

Wrathlon, couldn't agree more. Speed cameras will never be anything except a revenue raising exercise... Anybody else remember the speeding fine fiasco across Victoria earlier this year/late last? Millions of dollars were spent fixing cameras, millions more on compensating those that paid even when the camera's were faulty... Why not millions into better roads? What about a better driver education system? Its too freaking hard for them, and doesn't net them any profit in the end. Speed cameras do.

so you think there is no safety benefits at all?

Quote from Seqo:

Also, none of these statistics take into account harsh weather conditions or the myriad of other factors, fatigue being a prominent one.

BS.. everywhere has there own conditions, ice, snow, rain, dust, peak hour etc etc

Quote from Seqo:

Also, with the NT, small population means one persons death is more prominent on the statistics.

which is why the stats always look at it as a percentage of the population, ie deaths per 100 000 people

Quote from Seqo:

Basically, what Wrathlon said hits the nail dead on... Speed increases the severity of a crash when it occurs and is a contributing factor to a portion of accidents, but to say it is the cause is downright ignorance. ( <- not directed at anyone, I just hear it all the goddamn time... media, pollies etc)

so slowing people down would be a good thing right?

ps im over this typing, we can debate it over a beer if you like :D

Quote from insidious:
i dont debate that there is revenue raising happening, by why not make money off people breaking the law? iknow i have slowed down since the cameras were introduced, i have noticed many people slowing down in the danger spots where the cameras usualy are. Thats enough proof for me.

Why not put that money back into roads/driver training rather than filling government coffers for pet projects, then? Skate park, anyone?

Quote:
yes, a close freind of mine was t-boned trying to get across into wagaman, and i have seen more than a couple of crash scenes there.

I guess I should clarify, serious accident, to me, that's severe injury/loss of life. I got rearended there, but it was far from being serious.

Quote:
so here we go again, if you cant fix everything just do nothing?

No, do the right thing. Spend money where it makes a difference, not where you make a profit.

Quote:
fair enough, and i apologize for that remark, however while you are sick of people complaining about speed killing, i am sick of people whinging about the government / police enforcing the law

When their method for enforcing the law contradicts the reason for the laws existence, then I'll whinge. Slow down, stay safe... but they know people will speed, and they're making a killing off of it.

Quote:
my original comment is that the road rules hear need reveiwing, not just the speeding part, now these rules apply to everyone driving on nt roads, black, white, german, hot lesbian swedish backpackers with big knockers, whoever, our rules need to incorporate these things

You don't think they do already? I still am at a loss to see what road rules you are referring to... Open speed limits are just about the only prominent change to that of anywhere else in Australia.

Quote:
so you think there is no safety benefits at all?

In speed cameras? Nope.

Quote:
BS.. everywhere has there own conditions, ice, snow, rain, dust, peak hour etc etc

Peak hour doesn't cause a blowout at 100km/h on a thin stretch of road surrounded by 100's of kilometres of bushland. Granted, this is true... but people (especially tourists) underestimate the conditions here in their Airconditioned 4wd's. They don't underestimate snow/ice in their homelands.

Quote:
so slowing people down would be a good thing right?

I never said it wouldn't. Staying within the speed limit is abiding by the rules of the road. If you break those rules, then you pay the penalties. However, I will never agree to the governmental movement (Headed, in part, by Dr. Scruby of the Pedestrian Council...) to basically outlaw our freedom to: own a 4wd, own a sports car/muscle car, drive around a track, have an open speed limit on one of the longest stretches of road in the country.

Speed doesn't kill, but combine it with alcohol/fatigue/stupidity/un-roadworthiness/inexperience... and it causes problems. Thus, my point about driver training/licensing and cracking down on other areas to solve fatalities.

Quote:
ps im over this typing, we can debate it over a beer if you like :D

Haha, I'd love to ;)

Seqo.

most the people who die on our roads are tourists anyway

Meh, if you think speed kills look at the Autobahn (sp?). Highway in Germany with open speed limits....and hardly any crashes. Why? Because the road was designed for people to travel at high speeds, ie. banked corners, good surface etc... Now why spend bulk money telling people to slow down when you can spend it improving the roads, allowing them to travel at these speeds safely.

Quote from stealthninja:
Meh, if you think speed kills look at the Autobahn (sp?). Highway in Germany with open speed limits....and hardly any crashes. Why? Because the road was designed for people to travel at high speeds, ie. banked corners, good surface etc... Now why spend bulk money telling people to slow down when you can spend it improving the roads, allowing them to travel at these speeds safely.

good point :)

Quote from stealthninja:
Meh, if you think speed kills look at the Autobahn (sp?). Highway in Germany with open speed limits....and hardly any crashes. Why? Because the road was designed for people to travel at high speeds, ie. banked corners, good surface etc... Now why spend bulk money telling people to slow down when you can spend it improving the roads, allowing them to travel at these speeds safely.

Some lanes are speed restricted. One lane has a minimum speed of 250km/h.

And driver training is far superior in Germany than it is in Australia, as well as a system that encourages people to buy newer cars (Same as in Japan)... so you don't get the crappy ol' commo bombs with no brakes and bald tyres... like we do in Australia.

why cat we just all jiust get aong.

I do believe it has already been signed by claire that we are getting demerit points and losing our open speed limits.

I heard as Rumor(good source), but remember these words after the next election or in a year or so.

I doubt you'll get demerit points up there as all the politicians will be walking to work within a week.

The NT WILL be getting demerit points and 110 Kph speed restrictions. This is a done deal, signed sealed just not delivered yet. I would think it will be put out for "discussion" next year, so we have time to forget about it by the next election.

Quote from Wrathlon:
I doubt you'll get demerit points up there as all the politicians will be walking to work within a week.

Nice =)

also monkey - love the Bear!!!!

Down with claire - cops and rules are around for a reason but i still like my open speed limits ( 1.8 glxi lancers can do 200 :D ) did i mention down with claire????;)

Quote from Evil @ngel:
The NT WILL be getting demerit points and 110 Kph speed restrictions. This is a done deal, signed sealed just not delivered yet. I would think it will be put out for "discussion" next year, so we have time to forget about it by the next election.
I'm not trying to argue with anybody here, but I haven't heard anything of this, AND if such a law has been signed and passed, then there must be public information on it. I haven't been able to find anything on it at this stage from the government. That said, if it IS indeed true I want to know asap. Not that I don't think a point system can't work here, but I don't want to be one of the people who are negatively affected by it. That said, I can't imagine the NT without an open speed limit. Maybe if we had the density of somewhere like the US, then okay, but we don't.

Quote from Evil @ngel:
The NT WILL be getting demerit points and 110 Kph speed restrictions. This is a done deal, signed sealed just not delivered yet. I would think it will be put out for "discussion" next year, so we have time to forget about it by the next election.

You obviously have no ****ing idea of what you are talking about.

[Image: http://www.users.on.net/~jasonandjackie/Funnies/satantaco2.gif]

I can really see them funding a billion $ highway patrol to impose that 110k speed limit down Stuart Highway. rofl