56k vs cabler

do 56k'ers have a hard time against cablers in gamers underground servers?

im mostly aiming this question at fellow 56k'ers on the GU servers-
i was juss wondering, do cablers in the GU servers get big advantage against us? do they see 56kers way before we spot them?

tell me ur opinions-
as a 56k'er- do u fink playing against the cablers is fine?
as a cabler- do u fink Vs'ing a 56k'er piss easy?

i was juss wondering. plz dun flame me about being a n00b.
:oops:

oops i forgot to mention this is on the GU cs servers. :P
soz ^^

Cable certainly does have an advantage, but they get pulled around corners alot.

I certainly reckon there is a big advantage, ping obviously, less lag spikes and choke. If a cabler and 56ker were to fire their guns at each other at the same time (two players click the mice as same millisecond), wouldnt the server register the cablers shot first, as he has faster speeds?

I'm not too sure, but would like to know...Sly?

That's why if your on dial up you through a HE (mine is Coca-Cola can :lol: ), you can kill then once your dead! :twisted:

Yes its alot dam harder to play on 56k against cablers. You can be happily stroling along, minding your own business, and then die, only to see an enemy happily strole around the corner AFTER your dead. Though I think players on dialup become more aware of the game, they have to know whats going to happen before it does, so they can counter it. But theres still nothing we can do against the mighty OD/EOS/Fleshy rushes, its instant death :)

Quote from Odyssey:
Cable certainly does have an advantage, but they get pulled around corners alot.

Not as bad as 56K....Pop out and shoot then run back into cover, get pulled back out into the open every thime they "hit" you...(even though you were 5-6 paces inside cover)

You have to be a mind reader and a good shot (Neo)to get any good scores...or be a great camper(Cockroche).

You can do alright with 56K but ADSL or Cable is where it's at. :)

Quote from Neo:
Yes its alot dam harder to play on 56k against cablers. You can be happily stroling along, minding your own business, and then die, only to see an enemy happily strole around the corner AFTER your dead. Though I think players on dialup become more aware of the game, they have to know whats going to happen before it does, so they can counter it. But theres still nothing we can do against the mighty OD/EOS/Fleshy rushes, its instant death :)

thats true Neo about 56k getting more in touch with the game casue i would counter (dunno is the right word ) for the lag when doing things in CS

When GU was still on the Octa4 network, the pings were more even but now cablers get a much better ping and I've found it MUCH easier to hit people with my ping now even though it's only about 50ms less.

Depends if u lag or not, i dial upper lags then they are as good as dead.. if they dont then it really doesn't matter. Gone from Dial up to cable then back to dial up.. only notice difference when changing maps and well even cable lags sometimes :?

I always get killed by dialuppers after having taken cover cos on their screen im still there, but then i get killed by cablers too (just not as frequent). Although there have been a few times where ive died and then they come running out from around a corner despite me not lagging. Personally i think the netcode has just been gay in the last few updates (if not since 1.0)

being on 56k myself, and just LEAVING a game becuase i didnt want to be bluemanias bitch, i can tell you that being on dialup is a pain.

I think the worse is when a cabler jumps around a corner, you are already dead before you can make a shot. I think thats the most unfair thing ever.

Even if you manage to pull of a shot, the 150ms difference sees another 5 shots your way, no matter what you do, and you are dead, simple.

Also with pain in the ass awpers, you cant dodge them because it takes 300 ms for them to see you dodge. By then you are dead, even if you have dodged because they have shot you in the time the dodge has reach them. Its too late. you are already dead.

And being pulled around corners is the worse thing. you make a shot, run away, and then get pulled back and back, and becuase you are being pulled back, you get shot again. Its a lose lose situation. No matter what you do, there are always a few more bullets headed your direction.

No amount of netcode can predict you dodging and it only takes 200 ms for an awper to shoot you, or even ANY gun, because when you get hit you freeze, so the dodge doesnt register. you might as well stand there because there is NO way of winning.

so thats what i have learnt to do in CS is to camp. To hide, wait for them to discover YOU, and by then you have already got shots heading his way.

i dont give a fuck if someone calls me camper, they have a good 50+300 odd ms of advantage on me, so i am entitled to some advantage.

I think its nothing worse then emptying a whole clip of desert eagle rounds at an ememy, and then have them kill you with mp5 and you get 1 hit!!!

also if you make a running headshot on them its funny to see their head explode about 3 metres BEHIND them... thats worth it.

so i guess the different pings make a different player. I would like to think that being on dialup makes you are better player, liable to use tactics and terrian more then just aiming ability. Sure a cabler can kill you and then you see him walk around the corner.

But if you SEE him walk around the corner and he hasnt shot you, then let fly. at his head. And he will be dead becuase there are rounds just coming towards him and nothing will save him.

see them first, or be shot. Its not a case of them seeing you, becuase you are already dead.

lol, i dont think thats the case martok :)

Quote from Matt:
lol, i dont think thats the case martok :)

which bit?

the other one!! the case of beer!!

dont mind me i a, tired. I should be in bed ages ago but i am running an experiment.

what how many times you can masterbate. :shock:

already done that.

all i can say is thank god for ansell!!!

haha
j/k
dr3vil you shitface.

i dont think you need ansell you need burn cream :P

[parting shot]

you are just covering cos you THOUGHT ansell was BURN CREAM ;)

[/parting shot]

Quote from Dr3vil:
i dont think you need ansell you need burn cream :P
ahhahahahaha :lol:

Quote from Rainwulf A'Kahnon:
being on 56k myself, and just LEAVING a game becuase i didnt want to be bluemanias bitch..

Sorry bout that rainwolf, i dont play to make it bad for others :shock:
Cable is one thing, but my particular playing style is shoot first, ask questions later. You get 120 bullets in a rifle, you can be killed in a 1 on 1 with 10 bullets spent. Ever corner i goto i shoot, if i hear a 'ouch!' then i fire some more.

Not really cable at work.

A little off topic perhaps, but what I find amazing about the whole cable/dialup situation is:

In essence, a 200ms difference in connection isn't really that delayed at all, I mean, we're talking a fifth of a second here. Yet, because our reflexes (and the chemical signals there of) are far superior as yet to anything WE can create, the difference in the reality of gaming is like drawing and notching an arrow, as opposed to expending a clip.

I say, bring on the cybernetics!

In CS, alot can happen in 1/5 of a second.

Quote from doyen:
A little off topic perhaps, but what I find amazing about the whole cable/dialup situation is:

In essence, a 200ms difference in connection isn't really that delayed at all, I mean, we're talking a fifth of a second here. Yet, because our reflexes (and the chemical signals there of) are far superior as yet to anything WE can create, the difference in the reality of gaming is like drawing and notching an arrow, as opposed to expending a clip.

I say, bring on the cybernetics!

What are you raving on about?

Human reflexes are about 0.25 seconds. That is MORE than a 200ms latency. Let's take this situation:

You are firing a weapon with a ROF of 600 rpm (say). So is your opponent. You both have identical reflex times (250ms), and he has a latency of 50ms, whereas you have a latency of 250ms.

You see each other at the same time (let's say you both are standing in an open area and turn around, thus avoiding the client prediction problem that happens with high latencies).

At the point of firing, it will take 500ms (250ms reflex + 250ms latency) for your packets to be received by the server. Your enemy's shots will be received by the server in 300ms. During that 200ms difference, which seem like nothing at all, your enemy has managed to fire 2 more bullets than you have. Remember you only need 4 hits with a Colt to kill.

Thus, in addition to your enemy already having two bullets into your chest before your first one even hits, if he kills you first before your bullets hit, he doesn't get scratched, since the server does not permit posthumous kills or damage with hitscan weapons.

So, yes, a fifth of a second isn't long, but it's more than long enough. Note that I haven't even touched on the issues of client prediction making you "pop" out of corners you aren't intending to run around, and stuff like that.

Darkwolf.

0.25?

Ahhwell, forget what I said then.

I was sure I'd read somewhere it was far
below that, heh. Like a 5ms delay for a chemical
relay to asscertain two points in the body.

Quote from doyen:
0.25?

Ahhwell, forget what I said then.

I was sure I'd read somewhere it was far
below that, heh. Like a 5ms delay for a chemical
relay to asscertain two points in the body.

Yes, that is true. The propagation speed between neurons in the brain is extremely rapid, but remember that nerve signals only travel a couple of hundred kilometers an hour - and millions of neurons need to fire in synchronization to get an action to happen. That's why reflexes that involve the brain are much slower than the knee-jerk reflexes that only involve the spinal cord.

Darkwolf.

Hence why we have reflexes, to enable us to react faster.

If the ping is CONSTANT and <400, then dial-up is cool... i dont really complain 'bout cablers anyways...

THIS IS FLAK
Ping makes a lot of difference but choke more so. I play with 80+ choke when i hit combat and the bullets start flying. This means my bullets evaporate in mid air :)

I've played on a proper 56k connection (no choke and found that a million times better). With no choke it only comes down to who has the fastest reaction time even though .3 of a second has to be added to a dial ups reaction due to lag.

But ADSL and cablers have it eaisier unless our poor connections are playing up and they see us like we see them, on a slide show :)
THIS IS FLAK

Quote from grazimanz:
If the ping is CONSTANT and <400, then dial-up is cool... i dont really complain 'bout cablers anyways...

Exactly, a high ping doesnt mean shit, if its not fluxing then you have nothing to bitch about, its only when your ping is fluxing by a bit that its bad. I've had my ping jumping from say 50 on the new servers to about 90-100 and that is annoying however my ping is usually more stable than dialup.

i am on a 28-33 thousand bps conection at home and ping on the GU/Oz servers at about 300 ish
choke is really high and i i see someone and shoot em and miss all time or go around a corner and end up dead where i was
it is very had trying to play on this connection but i am going to try
i have played 2 nights in a row now and i am gonna try play it for 2 hrs a day to improve
i am 70th on the server now and i hope by friday i am less than 50th
but i hope to make my k/d ratio about .8 or higher
that would also make me happy

o BTW whats choke? do and whats it all about ?
how u lower it?

call Telstra - get a molds test done - my modem was pushing more data into the phone line then it could handle, and I would get unstable pings between 250 and 500 with about 80 choke - since getting the modem fine tuned, pings are stable at 300 to 350 and almost zero choke.

Its interesting to note that when playing NS I notice ping diferences aren't as fatal, or they don't seem to be - I managed to nail some top notch players relatively easily even though I was at a substantial ping disadvantage - anyone know if they've been tweaking the netcode on that mod?

I dunno meph but i was like getting heaps of kills on NS lastnight on 300-400 ping and i was having fun so i dunno what they did but they made it fun

Quote from Mephiston:
call Telstra - get a molds test done - my modem was pushing more data into the phone line then it could handle, and I would get unstable pings between 250 and 500 with about 80 choke - since getting the modem fine tuned, pings are stable at 300 to 350 and almost zero choke.

Its interesting to note that when playing NS I notice ping diferences aren't as fatal, or they don't seem to be - I managed to nail some top notch players relatively easily even though I was at a substantial ping disadvantage - anyone know if they've been tweaking the netcode on that mod?

that would kinda indicate that if you say connect at 49.2 (as i do) then setting it at say... 46, may be a much better way to DECREASE ping and DECREASE choke.

on a lan does anyone notice how much bandwidth CS really needs? its not that much. I say if you can sacrifice a few kbaud to get 50ms less ping, i am going to try this tonight and give you the results.
I am going to LIMIT my connection speed to 46.6k... (multilple) and see what happens.

Quote from BlueMania:
[quote:5552dc6b27="Rainwulf A'Kahnon"]being on 56k myself, and just LEAVING a game becuase i didnt want to be bluemanias bitch..

Sorry bout that rainwolf, i dont play to make it bad for others :shock:
Cable is one thing, but my particular playing style is shoot first, ask questions later. You get 120 bullets in a rifle, you can be killed in a 1 on 1 with 10 bullets spent. Ever corner i goto i shoot, if i hear a 'ouch!' then i fire some more.

Not really cable at work.[/quote:5552dc6b27]

nah its ok man, i was on my downward spiral since my ownage on militia ;)

i think it came to head when i emptied a WHOLE clip of deagle 50 cal rounds against gouda and i only got one hit in. this choke thing has more to it then i realised. maybe my rounds evaporated in mid air.

another advantage of cable/adsl.. no choke?

what the use of shooting some bastard when the rounds evaporate in mid air....

Quote from Rainwulf A'Kahnon:
on a lan does anyone notice how much bandwidth CS really needs? its not that much. I say if you can sacrifice a few kbaud to get 50ms less ping, i am going to try this tonight and give you the results.
Its not your connection bandwidth, its the connection Latency which makes the ping difference. Hell, I think you only need about 4 kb/s bandwidth. Paladin described it beautifully somewhere on these forums :)

Rainwulf - make sure you limit the modem connection rate, not the actual data transfer rate.

Quote from Neo:
[quote:5673983657="Rainwulf A'Kahnon"]on a lan does anyone notice how much bandwidth CS really needs? its not that much. I say if you can sacrifice a few kbaud to get 50ms less ping, i am going to try this tonight and give you the results.
Its not your connection bandwidth, its the connection Latency which makes the ping difference. Hell, I think you only need about 4 kb/s bandwidth. Paladin described it beautifully somewhere on these forums :)[/quote:5673983657]

yea i understand that... latency and bandwidth are totally different things.
I was just refering to the hope that decreasing my modem connection speed will help decrease ping.

and yea, i am going to limit the modem connection rate, not the data transfer rate!! hehe

i am having a house inspection this arvo but after then i will hop online and see what happens with the reduction in choke.

just knowing more of my rounds, which i KNOW are heading the right place, hitting the target makes me grin with delight.

you CANT dodge deagle... and like i said, escaping a whole clip of rounds from a deagle is impossible, so i think that choke is the key here.

time to experiment!

well i cant set the modem speed. it goes max. i can set the port speed. that is useless.......

damn for all my ideas....

yeah you should be able to. you can limit it in the init string for your modem, possibly by setting one of the s registers, unfortunately, i think it varies for modem to modem, so you'll have to investigate further yourself, ie, check out the at command set for your modem.

that sounds like hard work. hahaha

i wil go back to crap ping and abusing LPBs.

hmm yeah, like it's been said, if the ping's stable then it's not so bad...and with no choke, it's good...I must just be lucky, 56k and I had to put up with 100 choke for a bit..made for a great, laggy game :)

OK - here we go ...dumb question time ...

What is choke ? ( i assume not the knob ta pull out on ya dashboard on a cold day )

Yes I am a network engineer but this is a new one on me ...

Far as I understand it, its an indication that either you or the server has a bank of packets to process - ie. one or the other is receiving more data than it can conveniently deal with.

if you run the netgraph in CS it shows choke separate to latency.

Thanx Meph

You guys are all so helpful ... except Milf

I have just done a search and found a quite good explanation ....

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,2907929~root=gamers~mode=flat

and some tweaks etc I was lookin for ....new there was some relationship between em all

I have a little .cfg file that lets me swap easily between "lan" and "dialup" modes if you want to take a look at it - it simply shifts the command and update refresh rates to something more suited for dialup when I feel like wrestling with my connection :P

yes plz - may I have a look ?

you'll have to wait till tonight, I'm at work at the moment - send me a PM or an icq message and I'll get back to you about it.

I actually dont mind playing on dial-up, the problem for me only really occurs when there's heaps of dial-up players online at the same time, not sure why??

Playin against cablers is hard, dont get me wrong but I will say at least I'm lucky enough to be able to play cs, hell even be on the internet :lol:
I think that playing on dial-up actually makes you a better player, I mean you can curse and swear and carry-on, thats on a bad nite but really for a ping that varies between 180-250 on a good nite and getting a few kills, thats all that matter to me, also killing a few cablers, and actually beating them in dial-up gives me a laugh :P

BTW I have recently ordered adsl, I will see the difference then!!

My ping usually fluctuates from about 200> to <400..
Although at times I freeze for about 30 seconds.. my ping jumps to 1000< to >2500.. when that happens i just run to the nearest corner and hope I'm still breathing when i can move again..

I also find myself shooting, they shoot after and i die first..
*shrug*

you learn to live with it

here's a real good 'tweak' for all u dial up users...

its called element of suprise... now screw all this reaction time and how cablers hav this big advantage, and just charge with ur genitalia showing...

well then again it forces the other dude to use his reactions...

as soon ah he sees u lag will cause u to stand nice and still for him so he can place a few rounds in ur head after takeing a break and makeing some coffee
carging with lag is a bad idea, - specially since they change the code to stop lag cheats
It used to be if u shot them on ur screen theyd get hit, meaning u could reduce rate to 0 and use the 5 second buffer to race around the corner and shoot everone while their all standing still (theyd still think ur around the corner). Put the rate back up and u suddenly apear as everone around suddenly get shot by u in the head. :twisted:

This is why it only hits server side and why u get transported back when u lag.

i think what shits me is this.

DNC vs BM... it turned out being a ADSL vs Modem match.
they were all lpbs, and we had 1... thanks eos for jumping in for us.

ok we arent as good as DNC, but i honestly KNOW for a fact that BM is a clan worth reckoning with. But we really had no chance, they were shooting us through walls and around corners, before we even could see them.

And with packet loss, you emptied a whole clip into one of them, and because of lag, and the fact that they kill you first, those bullets dissapear.
its rather pointless.

[Image: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~rainwulf/images/3501.jpg]

Quote from Rainwulf A'Kahnon:
i honestly KNOW for a fact that BM is a clan worth reckoning with
Well usually I'd overlook this, but seeing as you've emphasised it so much, can I see this "fact" ? :)

i didnt say we are the best, and as a note, note most of DNC are lpbs?

funny that.

at a lan i am sure we wont go down like milf on his own mum. We have got some good players.

as for LPB vs Dialup wars, you can shove that right up your ass.

I didn't imply that you were saying your the best, or otherwise. I merely asked for this "fact" of yours. Fact is a very strong word and I think you've just misused it.

As for your point about DNC being all lpb's - deal with it. They've paid for their connection, they get the low ping. I'm sure you've played on the GU servers enough to realise DNC are a strong team, and most have a decent connection, yet your clan still made the decision to war them. I really don't think you've got much to argue about.

rain quit complaining .. I am about to go back to 56k anyways so we will war again :) then you cant say the whole team is lpb