Australian government declares; you are all government chattel!

That's right; the government now claims the right to monitor all 'private' electronic communications. The government believes we are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. They need only the most tenuous connection, to a person or persons under investigation, to monitor your every electronic communication. This is absolute bullshit. Even the majority of brain dead ninemsn users oppose this!

[Image: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/img/national/1502_emailspying_a.jpg]

Whatever you do; do not accept the microchip.

Here are the relevant articles;

Ruddock defends phone-tap powers

Quote:
Planned police and spy agency powers to tap, for the first time, the phones of people not suspected of a crime will be subject to strict controls, Attorney-General Philip Ruddock says.

The proposed laws allow police and spies to tap phone calls and trace emails and text messages of people believed to be in contact with suspected criminals.

New surveillance bill sparks concern

Quote:
Police will have 45 days to monitor a person not under suspicion in the hope it will lead them to the person or people they do suspect.

go protest or something.

If you have nothing to hide, why are you worried?
Id rather see actions like this in effect, than mother****ers walking around with bombs strapped to their chests, while our Intel agencies are standing around with a thumb up their asses.

you forgot to quote the bits where it requires a warrant, and the investigation needs to be in relation to an offence worthy of a seven year or greater prison sentence. but then it wouldn't be so one sided and sensationalist would it?

Far as i'm concerned if your doing something illegal then you deserve to be monitored.

Zero Point, just been reading through your posts... funny man ;)

People shouldn't take him so seriously, just look at his other posts.

Quote from SperO:
Far as i'm concerned if your doing something illegal then you deserve to be monitored.

What if what you now accept as legal became illegal?

Care to give an example?

Quote from SperO:
Far as i'm concerned if your doing something illegal then you deserve to be monitored.
We've been monitoring you for some time now, Mr Seqo.
It seems you have two lives.
One of these lives has a future.

Hahahahahah
Nice Jug

haven't been monitoring very closely, can't even tell the diff between spero and seqo.

Obviously. Well spotted...prize is on it's way.

;)

Seqo's the girl with the long hair ;-)

and boobs. :p

/rub nipples.

...disturbed :P

Quote from JugV2:
Quote from SperO:

Far as i'm concerned if your doing something illegal then you deserve to be monitored.We've been monitoring you for some time now, Mr Seqo.
It seems you have two lives.
One of these lives has a future.Quote from paladin:
haven't been monitoring very closely, can't even tell the diff between spero and seqo.LMAO... another gold nugget in GU. That's why I keep coming back. Keep it up boys :D

Democracy is the tyranny of the apathetic, uninformed, and terminally dependant.

Quote:
If you have nothing to hide, why are you worried?

Well gee, Milenko; if privacy is of no concern to you, why don’t you go live in some hippy commune, where 'private property' is a concept entirely disregarded, where you shower, make love, and evacuate your bowels...in public? Please do this and stop ruining Western Civilization.

I’m worried because I have a comprehension of history; I understand that the pretexts that governments’ use to consolidate and expand their power are entirely contrived. I know that we are at far greater risk from government enabled with totalitarian decrees such as the one we are discussing, than from the boogeymen governments’ try to scare the people with. The degree of damage criminals, gangs, or even "terrorists" may inflict upon others is always limited in scope, however governments that are not subject to the rule of law, universally tend towards a state of inflicting misery on an incomparable scale of criminality.

Quote:
Id rather see actions like this in effect, than mother****ers walking around with bombs strapped to their chests...

You live in Sydney? :grin:

rofl! dude, i have to say that you seem far enough to the left to fit in a most hippy communes

the Government has no right to spy on our privet lives

they wouldnt understand whatever the hell it is you're writing anyway - illiteracy, the new tinfoil hat!

Quote from Zero Point Consciousness:
<snip> ...consolidate and expand their power are entirely contrived. ...government enabled with totalitarian <God I love that word - makes me hard!!> .....the boogeymen governments’ ...<WTF is that??>. The degree of damage criminals, gangs, or even "terrorists" may inflict upon others is always limited in scope, however governments that are not subject to the rule of law, universally tend towards a state of inflicting misery on an incomparable scale of criminality.

Let me guess....enlightened <<snigger>> uni student?

Too much LSD, methinks.

There's this great, real-life documentary you must watch...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118883/

:-)

There is a difference between me taking a shit in my toiliet while the govt monitor my bowel movements and taking a shit in the middle of a city for everyones viewing (dis)pleasure.

Do you always take shit (no pun intended) out of context to suit your argument?
I never said i dont enjoy my privacey. However if you bothered to comprehend my point (that must have been so subtle you glossed over it in a matter of nano-seconds), this 'type' of monitoring would presumably only be flagged if i were suspected of criminal activity or involved in the fringe of a crime.
Thus, I couldnt give a shit if they want to monitor me and listen to my phone calls. If anything, theres too many 'do gooders' in the world today, stopping pre-emptive measures against would be crimes.

Would you take a different tune if a family member or loved one of yours was murdered, and this type of 'information' could have prevented it? I will bet my left fu.cking nut that you would.
Or do you hold the knowledge of which hand you use to wipe your ass with, over information that could do some good in the community?

Have you read your own quotes at the start of this thread?
The powers are limited to those suspected of involvement with criminal activity or known offenders, or monitor individuals in the event it may lead to ties with Criminal Involvement or Criminal Activity.
Im all for it, if it reduces the number of people being stabbed, shot, raped and/or senselessly killed.

My 2c.
I wipe with my right hand, by the way.

This guy is awesome. He should be a new mod!

Just look at his sig (the pics)...

if your worried about your privacy use 1024 bit encryption. Although i would like to know how the goverment is going to monitor everyone activitys? Mostly i assume this will fall onto ISP to impliment.

Or the goverment will sub contract it out to a companie that will sub contract it to another one, who will intern sub contract it to another. Meaning shit all will happen unless major investment is done.

Oh no the governement will monitor my activities. Heres a hint this type of monitoring cost money a lot of money. They will not use it on some random individual "just in case" when it can be used to monitor someone where there is very real posibility of preventing a crime or arreasting someone who has commited a crime with the information gained. If you think goveement agency have nothing better to do than listern to your idle chatter or the read the crap you post on forums you need to have your ego checked as it might be cancerous.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty..."

Quote:
However if you bothered to comprehend my point (that must have been so subtle you glossed over it in a matter of nano-seconds), this 'type' of monitoring would presumably only be flagged if i were suspected of criminal activity or involved in the fringe of a crime.

Please re-read my original post, and the articles linked to therein.

Quote:
If anything, theres too many 'do gooders' in the world today, stopping pre-emptive measures against would be crimes.

There are too many 'do gooders' in the world today, I agree. There are too many in government, too many in the police, too many in these "intelligence" agencies. There are a lot of 'do gooders' going around banning fireworks, freedom of speech, self-defence, and privacy, and then forcing lifejackets, seatbelts, and National ID cards onto everyone. They really need to get a life.

By the way, it might be simpler if you shorten your statement, "pre-emptive measures against would be crimes" to "pre-pre-crime". :p

Quote:
Would you take a different tune if a family member or loved one of yours was murdered, and this type of 'information' could have prevented it? I will bet my left fu.cking nut that you would.

Though I am a victim of repeat violent crime, namely taxation; I wouldn't and I haven't taken a 'different tune'. I wouldn't subject innocent people to a police-state on the laughable pretext that such a crime helps to diminish criminality.

You may keep your left nut.

Quote:
Or do you hold the knowledge of which hand you use to wipe your ass with, over information that could do some good in the community?

I don’t need to hold that knowledge in higher regard, because it is entirely outside any legitimate jurisdiction of either the police, or the wider public.

As I said earlier, if you do not appreciate the core Western values; such as justice and liberty; if you are so naive that you believe a government police-state will afford you 'safety', a magical fairy world free from crime and terrorism, then please move to China. In China, you don’t even have to go to them, they come to you!

Quote:
Have you read your own quotes at the start of this thread?
The powers are limited to those suspected of involvement with criminal activity or known offenders, or monitor individuals in the event it may lead to ties with Criminal Involvement or Criminal Activity.

You need to re-read them yourself. 3rd party innocent citizens. INNOCENT. INNOCENT!

Quote:
Im all for it, if it reduces the number of people being stabbed, shot, raped and/or senselessly killed.

If these things are of such concern to you, where were you when the official UN pussification plan got underway through the gun buyback?

The most moral, sensible method of crime reduction is a free market absolved from these control-freak governments, with plentiful community-wide private gun ownership.

But no, you let the United Nations disarmament plan for global enslavement become a reality. Congratulations, you just lost your right to life, and handed your women over to the Blue Helmeted “Peace Keepers”. I wonder how proud your mother is of that.

Quote:
Oh no the governement will monitor my activities. Heres a hint this type of monitoring cost money a lot of money. They will not use it on some random individual "just in case" when it can be used to monitor someone where there is very real posibility of preventing a crime or arreasting someone who has commited a crime with the information gained. If you think goveement agency have nothing better to do than listern to your idle chatter or the read the crap you post on forums you need to have your ego checked as it might be cancerous.

"Australian phones are 26 times more likely to be bugged than an American phone."

Can sombody shot this guy, hes stupid. May i ask this one question you go about posting crap on bbs talking about free right, and security of your own privacy. Then may i ask you, what are you going to do about it? whats that nothing. You will continue to bitch and whine about the state of affairs and continue argu your point neveraless its completly worthless. If you want to make a change then get into politics and make somthing of yourself and change the rules that we may all be in a free secure world that you want.

If you just simply say you can’t then you’re just as arrogant as the people who you proclaimed are in power already.

... you're calling someone stupid and arrogant for disagreeing with government policy?

edit: no offence chad, but democracy ftw.

Im not going to waste my e-breathe.
His love of large words and sensationlist posting has the better of him.
I think he fancies himself as somewhat of a new radical. Just doesnt realise he's spouting the same rhetoric from sooth-sayers before him.

But just on a leaving note:
Quote:
As I said earlier, if you do not appreciate the core Western values; such as justice and liberty; if you are so naive that you believe a government police-state will afford you 'safety', a magical fairy world free from crime and terrorism, then please move to China. In China, you don’t even have to go to them, they come to you!

A police-state? What the ****?
You think that having extra powers to monitor criminal activities makes us a police state?
You my friend, are on A-grade fuc.king crack.

Quote:

But no, you let the United Nations disarmament plan for global enslavement become a reality. Congratulations, you just lost your right to life, and handed your women over to the Blue Helmeted “Peace Keepers”. I wonder how proud your mother is of that.

So where were you?
On the 'frontlines' or reading books at uni spouting how the world should be, but self-knowing that you will more than likely never amount to anything to implement actual change?

edit - Looking at your series of posts, i start to wonder of your actual agenda. You sir, are a troll.

This truly is a "LOL" moment.

When the accused left wing radical reveals himself as a free market ideologist the intellectual imposters here have nothing to hang s*** on.

Go hard dude, you've got these boys in a spin!

my god this really has got out of hand but its a ****n funny ass read!

Quote from iscariot:
This truly is a "LOL" moment.

When the accused left wing radical reveals himself as a free market ideologist the intellectual imposters here have nothing to hang s*** on.

Go hard dude, you've got these boys in a spin!

hardly, its more the fact that you and your rabidly overzealous ilk aren't worth the time to pointlessly argue with, since you're so convinced of the perfection of your own views you'll never acknowledge any value in anyone elses.

Quote from doyen:
... you're calling someone stupid and arrogant for disagreeing with government policy?

edit: no offence chad, but democracy ftw.

Not neccearly, im pointing out hes arrogant because he thinks hes view point is 100% correct and the only way to go. Stupid because hes doing it on a public forum when really no one here cares, more or less trying to get people to agree with his view.

Simply I dont think democracy is for the whole world, how can one political system be? Different nations have different ethnic, social, political systems. Trying to ram them all into one system would be like trying to hit a nail with a sledge hammer.

maybe so, but this isn't the whole world, and this IS a democracy. so, he's quite entitled to preach his propaganda, however much you or I, or anyone else might disagree with it.

unless of course OD says he can't. OD is ofcourse god, and should be worshipped and groveled to accordingly :p

This thread has been some fantastic reading, good times all round :)

Markets fail, mate. Don't get me wrong, I'm a free-market, Friedman-loving, Chicago-school economics student - but if you've read any of their literature, you'd know that even they suggest that there are certain areas that aren't best to leave to markets. National security and internal security are two of those that I can think of off the top of my head.

I believe that the values we want to uphold as a society - e.g. equal treatment in front of the law (by both police and the legal system), and our right to be a secure soveriegn nation can mean that the best way to achieve these aims is to have publicly funded organisations.

I think you'll also find most free-market economists agree that not all good and services should be subject to the free market. Do you really want to live in a world where private firms are creating nuclear weapons and selling them to the highest bidder? Gun control increases public safety, and in my opinion this is more important than making an ideological point.

Have a read of some stuff by Paul Krugman, he's an economist who teaches at MIT and writes for the NY times. I disagree with alot of his stuff, but he makes some valid points about how the government can be a force for good.

A free market does not work where you have localised monolopies. The price of petrol has increased partly due to demand but mostly due to the control apec have on the world oil market. How healthy do you think communications would be in australia all controls where removed from telstraj tomorrow.

Quote from chad:
Not neccearly, im pointing out hes arrogant because he thinks hes view point is 100% correct and the only way to go. Stupid because hes doing it on a public forum when really no one here cares, more or less trying to get people to agree with his view.

I assume you think your view is 100% correct? He's giving his opinions as are you. How about we just agree you are both wrong. Both of you don't claim to be 100% correct in this thread so i don't know how you draw this conclusion.

And one could say exactly the same thing about your point of view. It's arrogant and you think it's 100% correct(after all it is your opinion), and you are trying to persuade people to your point of view. See how it goes? It's pointless to say things like this.

Quote from morge:
A free market does not work where you have localised monolopies. The price of petrol has increased partly due to demand but mostly due to the control apec have on the world oil market. How healthy do you think communications would be in australia all controls where removed from telstraj tomorrow.

A free market economist would argue that the monopoly is self-defeating. The monopolist makes bucketloads of money exploiting the monopoly until the exploitation forces people to find an alternative or adapt. It could be that OPEC being greedy bastards causes someone out there to find a viable green technology when the motivation to do this would never have been there without exploitation. But in the short-term, yes the market sucks balls for the plebs being exploited like you and me :(

Quote from Frenzy:
I assume you think your view is 100% correct? He's giving his opinions as are you. How about we just agree you are both wrong. Both of you don't claim to be 100% correct in this thread so i don't know how you draw this conclusion.

And one could say exactly the same thing about your point of view. It's arrogant and you think it's 100% correct(after all it is your opinion), and you are trying to persuade people to your point of view. See how it goes? It's pointless to say things like this.

I can negate your whole statement by simply saying i was wrong and that he was correct. Actualy I completly agree with him, we shall inslave the women of the world and make monkeys.

Damn Filthy Apes.

can we close this thread? It is so five minutes ago.
Whateverrrrrr.

Yeah cool, the government can go read all my pharmaceutical e-mails, offering me drugs and other bullshit to enlarge my dick.

Aw, where's the crazy troll gone :(

back under the bridge