Voodoo5 AA Performance

How many nVidia products including the lates have 8-Sample AA? I think the performance of this card says it all. I've been told by a magazine that nVidia 4x4 Supersampling is about the same image quality as T-Buffer 2x Subpixel Jittering. So the card is doing less to achieve more, this is the definition of good performance.

[Image: http://members.optushome.com.au/yakuza_locutus/non-web/v5%206000%20aa.gif]

ok.

Awww arent they pretty colours on that graph..

You have said any number of times that the Voodoo series cards are processor dependant - wouldn't that be taking clock cycles away from things that might need them more in a high load situation? (ie. just about any game you'd care to mention)
You would end up with a similar problem that the old Riva cards had when they outsourced texture memory to the normal RAM pool. Basically system degredation under extreme load.

More with less isn't necessarily a good thing.

i like the purple.

Hmm what was that old man saying back in Primary school? - Graphs must always have titles, labels, units, etc.... yeah think it was something like that....

Also remember someone saying never use shitty yellow colours on grey backgrounds... or maybe that was just me [Blocked image]

I'll give it a 1 out of 3 [Blocked image]

Voodoo Banshee, 3, 4 & 5 don't offload compresed texture to the system ram. This is only an AGP feature and even the V5 AGP is a PCI card with an AGP slot, so its not using the AGP bus to access the system memory. And yes, it is CPU dependant but it doesn't use the CPU as you might think. If you have a good system eg: ram, CPU, Motherboard etc the V5 will perform better than the GF256 or 2 with an Athlon 800MHz or above. Basically up the CPU and the V5 TMU goes with it, unlike any GPU cards which have little to no difference with CPU upgrades because they have a fixed performance, all 3dfx products do not.

The purple is nice isnt it..

Well what I just got out of that was your saying Geforce cards won't have better performance with better CPU's. (sorry I got a little lost in the gibberish).

I had an athlon 750mhz with a Geforce card.... then I upgraded to a 1.2ghz with the same Video card - and shit did my fps (and other Video related things) increase in performance ALOT.

So... I dunno - but I think your wrong [Blocked image]

How much? I upgraded from a Duron 900 to an XP1900 Athlon and my performance tripled! Did yours do this much with an upgrade like this?

Is this really just a " my video card is bigger than yours " thread ?

U can exchange the term video card, with anything really, including male anatomy if U wish..

If so grow up. Just STFU..

We dont care. U can use your video card as a supositry for all I care.

If we have a question, we will post it.. We dont want freakin advertisments for the things crammed down our throats.

What r u talking about, my penis is bigger.

I just noticed something very interesting about the graph. The voodoo5 being tested is the 6000 model.
Now Odyssey, as a great fan of the voodoo5 range, perhapse you would like to tells us :
a) the specs of this card
b) the price of this card
c) the avaliability of the card.

LOL.. Personally u can cram ure aa up ure arse.. i dont care about it, i prefer raw performance..

Raedon cards supposedly have better quality.. to be honest i dont care... Frame rate is everything.. Geforce cards will put out more frames on non-aa apps than anything else u can name including ure voodoo 10 10 x 10^1000..

Intesting graph though.. Erm what ap was it tested in ? or did u just make it up? yeah thought so..

Now don't you see Odyssey, I tried to be nice about it - you could have taken my advice and saved yourself all this embarassment. Ohh well, at least its been mildly entertaining to watch.

Edit: Ohh by the way, you failed to address my above post accurately - I didn't say the voodoo's used system memory, only said they stole clock cycles from the processor, and hey, it might mean the graphics are wiz bang, but under load, the program running said graphics is starting to loose out - me personally, i'd rather a graphics card that can think for itself.

[ 03 April 2002: Message edited by: Mephiston ]</p>

And I'd just like to say, I do like that purple.

Its awful pretty..

Lol, i'm not making a fool of myself. Everything I have said is true. Flam u love your frame rates, do you know the human eye can not notice any more than 30fps. So why shouldn't you max games at that and turn on 4 Sample(I don't need to in any games, new or old). What you don't know is that AA is different on V5 than others. With it on and frames maxed at 20 its smoother than 20fps without AA so the AA frame loss is irrelevant. "I haven't found the advantage that 130 fps have over 100 fps quite yet." Toms Hardwhare

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Odyssey:
Lol, i'm not making a fool of myself. Everything I have said is true. Flam u love your frame rates, do you know the human eye can not notice any more than 30fps. So why shouldn't you max games at that and turn on 4 Sample(I don't need to in any games, new or old). What you don't know is that AA is different on V5 than others. With it on and frames maxed at 20 its smoother than 20fps without AA so the AA frame loss is irrelevant. "I haven't found the advantage that 130 fps have over 100 fps quite yet." Toms Hardwhare<hr></blockquote>

Funnny how i can tell the difference between 30 and 100.. I must be special..

Flamm.. Any human with 20-20 vision can tell the diff between 30 and 100 fps..

FACT.

Specs on highest 3dfx card: 1Gb of graphics memory, 42.5 Gb/sec, 2048x2048 max resolution, 10,656 MegaPixels/sec, 16xAnti-Aliasing.
I don't care about maximum framerate, only minmmum. Here is a V5 5500 running UT in DX and it still beats a GF2. So don't tell me the V5 is only good in UT cos of glide. And about your frames, either your inhuman and can see more than 30fps, your card is producing a faulse framerate or your bull shitting.(either 2 or 3, probably both) P.S I didn't say the 30fps thing, I took a quot from an Optomitrist.
[Image: http://members.optushome.com.au/yakuza_locutus/non-web/ut%20resolutions.gif]

[ 03 April 2002: Message edited by: Odyssey ]</p>

[Fact]
The average human eye will not notice a difference between approximately 70fps up
[/Fact]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Odyssey:
[QB]Specs on highest 3dfx card: 1Gb of graphics memory, 42.5 Gb/sec, 2048x2048 max resolution, 10,656 MegaPixels/sec, 16xAnti-Aliasing.
I don't care about maximum framerate, only minmmum. Here is a V5 5500 running UT in DX and it still beats a GF2. So don't tell me the V5 is only good in UT cos of glide. And about your frames, either your inhuman and can see more than 30fps, your card is producing a faulse framerate or your bull shitting.(either 2 or 3, probably both) P.S I didn't say the 30fps thing, I took a quot from an Optomitrist. [QB]<hr></blockquote>

OMg what a looser.. U ask my mate Wortel. I noticed a slight differnce between 100 and 85 fps. He couldnt believe i did .. but i saw it. wasnt big but it was there.

I do not want to hear some computer magazine or online place about there specs.. I want you to do it at home!

Actualy, you did state the 30 fps thing as part of your arguement. you also havent addressed my post. so here are the answers:

a) 4x VSA100 chipsets (v5 5500 has only 2) running at 183mhz each (5500 are at 166mhz)
128mb onboard memory .. draws 50 watts of power - requires special psu.

b)assuming this card ever was availiable is up for debate, but rumor has it that they were going for "200 .. nowdays the rare one or two that get sold secondhand go for around "500.

c) avaliability. unless your the son/daughter of the ceo of 3dfx, i doubt you would ever even see one.

[ 03 April 2002: Message edited by: God ]</p>

Enjoy Flamm:
Well everybody who learns about television techniques learns that the human eye can not see the difference between more that 30 different frames per second. This fact is obtained from various tests done all over the world and is taken as a proven fact. This fact is used to prove that the 25/30 fps provided by normal television is more than enough.

Ok first of all make sure that you know the difference between refresh rate and frame rate since both are different. The human eye is unable to see the difference between more than 30 fps but the human eye is much more sensitive for changes in intensity : flickering of a screen. For this reason the refresh rate is usually much higher.

The refresh rate is how often the electron beam writes the image to the screen (electron beam hits phosphor layer, phosphor layer lights up and then decays, ...). With television 25 or 30 different images are shown per second, the refresh rate however is the double : 50 Hz or 60 Hz. The refresh rate has to be higher in bright rooms then in dark rooms, monitors are in bright well-lit offices and cinema is played in a rather dark room. This means that computer monitors are running at at least 60 Hz while the movies run only at 48 Hz ( each image is shown twice, 24 fps ).

There actually is another trick involved : interlacing. Television doesn't write the whole image in one go it writes the odd lines first and in the next pass it writes the even lines and this changes constantly. This trick is used to limit the bandwidth needed (only half needed compared to full screen resolution ! ). This means that the image is written at the double speed ( 50 or 60 Hz) but each time only half of it : so first pass the odd lines are written, the next pass the even lines are written to the screen, that way a full new frame is written every two passes of the electron beam ( 25 or 30 Hz ) .

You could say that 50/60 half-frames are written each second and 25/30 full-frames are written each second. By now you are probably wondering why I always write 25/30 and 50/60... well the European system has a higher resolution but a lower frame rate of 25, the American NTSC ( = Never The Same Colour ; ) system runs at a lower resolution but displays 30 frames per second. There are other differences but that is not the subject of this article.

[Blocked image]

I will correct u martok

FPS = Frames Per Second
Hz = Cycles Per Second

Anyone seeing the same thing ? There is no differnce cause it is the same thing.

60Hz in windows annoys my eyes.
60fps in Cs annoys my eyes.

I have my monitor set to 100hz in both windows and during CS. if i limit it to 60. I only get 60 Hz frames.

Go figure!

[ 03 April 2002: Message edited by: Flammable ]</p>

God the the retail Quantum 3D AA5 does not have the aditional PSU, it doesn't need it. Being able to notice the diff between 80 and 100 fps is even funnier than the "GF256 is better than the V5 5500" lol. The Quad-chip VSA-100 card was never released by 3dfx, only Quantum 3D and no its only 166MHz not the 183. Thats the thing about the V5's. They have shitty SDRAM, 166MHz chips and crappy mp/sec 667 (5500). The GF2 GTS has 1600 mp/sec. When using resoloutions 1024x768 or above your card relies on a high mp/sec and when using 2x Sample AA your mp/sec are halved (so V5 is reduced to 333). And with 4x Sample AA its reduced to one quarter (166). 166 mp/sec in 4 Sample AA and it beats a GF2 GTS with 400 also with 4 x AA. WHF? On paper the GF2 GTS should (should) be about 2 1/2 times the performance of a V5 5500, but the sad truth is its not and thats why they are shit.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Flammable:
FPS = Frames Per Second
Hz = Cycles Per Second<hr></blockquote>

Found this ages ago. Don't flame me for this. [Blocked image]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Some Guy:
'Ok first of all make sure that you know the difference between refresh rate and frame rate since both are different. The human eye is unable to see the difference between more than 30 fps but the human eye is much more sensitive for changes in intensity : flickering of a screen. For this reason the refresh rate is usually much higher. The refresh rate is how often the electron beam writes the image to the screen (electron beam hits phosphor layer, phosphor layer lights up and then decays, ...). With television 25 or 30 different images are shown per second, the refresh rate however is the double : 50 Hz or 60 Hz. The refresh rate has to be higher in bright rooms then in dark rooms, monitors are in bright well-lit offices and cinema is played in a rather dark room. This means that computer monitors are running at at least 60 Hz while the movies run only at 48 Hz ( each image is shown twice, 24 fps )<hr></blockquote>

And before you say it, yes, martok has already posted this. [Blocked image]

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: YaKuZa Locutus ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Odyssey:
The Quad-chip VSA-100 card was never released by 3dfx, only Quantum 3D and no its only 166MHz not the 183. Thats the thing about the V5's. They have shitty SDRAM, 166MHz chips and crappy mp/sec 667 (5500). <hr></blockquote>

DUDE, that is my point EXACTLY .. the benchmarck you have shown in your first post is comparing a geforce 2 GTS to a VooDoo5 6000 (the quad chip one that was never released)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Please tell me how you can limit the refresh rate in CS. The refresh rate can only be set in windows and then thats what you get in CS.

Also win 2k caps your frames at 60 fps and large company like microsoft wouldn't cap frames at a level that would irritate the human eye.<hr></blockquote>

Correct, the refresh rate for cs is determined by the windows refresh rate at that resolution. No, microsoft havent caped the "frames at 60 fps", they have a bug in the video interface that doesnt alow your monitor to run at any greater than 60 hz refresh rate in apps running over the top of windows. That is easily fixed by getting the lattest nVidia refresh fix (for nvidia cards), and also an ATi one now, simply found by searching Google.

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: God ]</p>

BTW, the benchmark was in Quake III with a PentiumIII around 550 to 650, don't remember. The point is both cards were tested with the same settings on the same system.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quoteQuote:
I have my monitor set to 100hz in both windows and during CS. if i limit it to 60. I only get 60 Hz frames.

Please tell me how you can limit the refresh rate in CS. The refresh rate can only be set in windows and then thats what you get in CS.

Also win 2k caps your frames at 60 fps and large company like microsoft wouldn't cap frames at a level that would irritate the human eye.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>FPS = Frames Per Second
Hz = Cycles Per Second

Anyone seeing the same thing ? There is no differnce cause it is the same thing.<hr></blockquote>

whatever

In the Real World objects don't jump from one place to another - they move smoothly passing through every point between where they start and where they end during their journey. In a computer game, objects don't. They move finite discreet amounts each time they move (limitations of a digital universe). In addition to this, we only see discreet snapshots in time when the screen updates.
While the human eye might not be able to perceive much detail above 25fps our eyes sure as hell don't take 25 discreet images each second and then chain them together into some weird stop-motion video for our brains.
Most people can tell the difference between 30fps and 100fps (ignoring refresh rate completely for now) simply because when the screen is showing us 100 individual images each second instead of 30 the delta between an object's position in one frame to the next is much smaller creating the illusion of smooth motion for our primitive visual apparatus. This feels more natural and is less distressing.
Do a search on the net for things relating to the Saving Private Ryan movie and bizzare shutter speeds, and how disconcerting many people found them. This is a classic example of the effect I'm talking about.
The reason we don't get the same unnatural disjointed feeling when watching TV or movies (except as noted above) is because the film is exposed to the light for a period of time - only a short time, true, but long enough to impart some motion blur effect.. again this can help trick the brain into seeing smooth stutter free movement.
Now I'm drawing my own conclusions here, but you can't argue with the logic.

On a different note, even if your fps counter in-game says 120fps, if your monitor refresh rate is only 60Hz you aren't seeing more than 60fps anyway.

cth

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: cthulhu ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by God:

DUDE, that is my point EXACTLY .. the benchmarck you have shown in your first post is comparing a geforce 2 GTS to a VooDoo5 6000 (the quad chip one that was never released)<hr></blockquote>

Are you people actually reading what I am posting. I said before that the quad-chip card (6000) was never officially released by 3dfx in large numbers(the ones you see on E-bay). Actually the cards were originally priced at realistic (around AUS"500, around the same price when the first GF2 Ultras were trickling out) prices and now they have become more of a collectors item so naturally the price has risen(the most I've seen is $2,500 US). 3dfx licensed the four-way SLi(and above) technology to Quantum3D. For those of you who don't know who Quantum3D are, they are a hardcore graphics company that was started by the same man who created 3dfx.

to add to cth's post: you will be getting 120fps but because of the 60hz you will see 60, thus tearing and jittering in textures and models, that is why V-Sync was enabled.

regarding the V5 issue, the 5500 model wasn't what it could have been, if they had done the smart thing and released the 6000 then they probably wouldn't be dead now.

how in all hell could this quantum3D have the V5 6000 models when nVidia owns, that is right owns, the license for both that product and the glide api. ?? please explain this as technically it cannot happen.

V5 as i have said before was good for Sims, and it still is, it's AA performance was better visually and had less of a performance hit than the Geforce line, good for sim players but seriously if you are playing Q3 or another FPS - First Person Shooter in this case, then why not just up the res.

also the geforce line, even though it reduces performance substantially under AA, still could beat the 5500 (the only released V5 in existence....what you see on eBay is bull****) in regards to framerate.

and yes....i like the purple.

p.s the tom's hardware performance you quoted was a realistic performance figure from the specs that were being released by 3DFX and from the reports and hopes being spread around at the time.

Edit: just reread the entire thread...

i can usually notice (that is myself personally) a difference almost the same as Flamm, usually between fifteen and twenty frames.

T.V basically has real motion blur, what they say in all those computer game specs about motion blur is a virtual motion created by the software and hardware.

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: Seqo_ae ]</p>

WHO the fuck cares FRAMERATE IS EVERYTHING [Blocked image]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by *BrAd*:
WHO the fuck cares FRAMERATE IS EVERYTHING [Blocked image] <hr></blockquote>

so spoketh the guru of wisdom.

actually its nowhere near that simple Brad - framerate is utterly pointless when your a graphic artist, or a 76 year old grandfather who sends an email every other weekend.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MARTOK:

whatever<hr></blockquote>

Nvidia refresh patch..

Pal u know what i mean

Frames being cycles
per = per
second second
clock cycles per second..

Hz is a generic Term used it physics and what not.. generalised as cycles per second.. cycles can mean anything from frames to wingwangs in the arse!

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: Flammable ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Flammable:

wingwangs in the arse!

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: Flammable ]<hr></blockquote>

.....

now that's just wrong! [Blocked image]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seqo_ae:

.....

now that's just wrong! [Blocked image] <hr></blockquote>

Wingwangs in the arse per second then [Blocked image]

lol

yeah but the joke was just begging to be made

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Flammable:
I will correct u martok

FPS = Frames Per Second
Hz = Cycles Per Second

Anyone seeing the same thing ? There is no differnce cause it is the same thing.

<hr></blockquote>

awesome. then my athlon 1800xp must be giving me over 1,500,000,000 fps

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seqo_ae:
how in all hell could this quantum3D have the V5 6000 models when nVidia owns, that is right owns, the license for both that product and the glide api. ?? please explain this as technically it cannot happen.[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: Seqo_ae ]<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seqo_ae:
how in all hell could this quantum3D have the V5 6000 models when nVidia owns, that is right owns, the license for both that product and the glide api. ?? please explain this as technically it cannot happen.[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: Seqo_ae ]<hr></blockquote>

Actually it can. Did you even read the report on 3dfx's web page before it was taken down? (Of coarse not that would be to logical) 3dfx used to sell its chips to third-party manufactures like nVidia does today, but in 1998 3dfx purchased the graphics card manufacturer STB, including its Juarez facility in Mexico. They stoped selling to third-party companies and made their own “made by 3dfx”(3dfx chip + card), instead of “powered by 3dfx”(3dfx chip + third-party card) boards. NVidia realised they were loosing the court battle with 3dfx so they bought them out. This means that nVidia didn’t buy all of 3dfx, only some of it. They got the rights to the names “3dfx”, “Voodoo”, the “patent lawsuits” and the “T-Buffer technology”. Because Quantum3D and 3dfx were made by the same guy they were always working closely with each other. So 3dfx sold the SLi rights to Quantum3D so nVidia couldn’t have it, lol. 3dfx is still very much alive, but they are trading under a different name and only selling to third-party companies (Quantum3D is one of them). The VSA100 chips are still being produced so that’s how Quantum3D can have “new” cards. 3dfx only made around 60 V5 6000 and only in retail form (rapped in a plastic bag with the drivers) they also designed a box as well but never used it. Quantum3D are the only ones who manufacture the AAlchemy AA5 (V5 6000) in numbers (still today). 3dfx didn’t want to make the V5 6000 themselves because they were more interested in the Rampage+Sage chip (VSA200). But because nVidia bought the rights to the name Voodoo, they couldn’t release a new product under the Voodoo name (VSA stands for Voodoo Scaleable Architecture), they could only continue manufacturing the current one (VSA100). That is why we will never see a “released to the public Rampage” even though 3dfx had already made a few test models (I would like to know where they are now, in some employees hot little hands I bet) and were ready for mass production. We will only see (if at all) the “Fear+Sage II” chips. AMD, Creative and S3 now own what I call, “the company formally known as 3dfx” or “3dfx2”. Creative are working with 3dfx2 on the Fear+SageII chips and AMD are using the SLi technology in their future mulit-processing system design. And last, Glide API is now open source so any chip manufacturers can now use it.
[Blocked image]

Listen,

No one is buying your "Sell Voodoo 5" gimmick so give up. We all know better..

Bye Bye!

hey Odyssey, you under commission or something dude? your as bad as a door to door sales person - give it up already!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quoteQuote:
AMD are using the SLi technology in their future mulit-processing system design

wtf? how on earth does a technology that allows independant chips to render alternative video scan-lines relate to general purpose multi-processor computing?

I agree Sly - that is a nice purple [Blocked image]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cthulhu:

wtf? how on earth does a technology that allows independant chips to render alternative video scan-lines relate to general purpose multi-processor computing?<hr></blockquote>

Because graphics chips are processores too. AMD is using new 'unheard of' technology in their new multi-processing systems which are nothing like we see today. They have successfully modified SLi to their needs.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Flammable:
Listen,

No one is buying your "Sell Voodoo 5" gimmick so give up. We all know better..

Bye Bye!<hr></blockquote>
WTF? I and anyone else can buy them if they want and if they want to fork out the sort of money for a card that the US army use in thier massive simulator machines, than they can. They are named AAlchemy AA5 8232, AA5 8264 and AA5 8462. The picture shows the AAlchemy AA5 models may have a different name, but the card still registers as a 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 when first posting. Either the 3dfx or Quantum3D drivers can be installed on them aswell, make your choice.

[Image: http://members.optushome.com.au/caseypretty/shot.jpg]

I thought you nVidia Mark, whoops I mean 3D Mark can be speed hacked, here's the link
http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/a_speed_cheat/
The benchmark in UT under DX is a nice one, especially the 1280x1024x32-Bit performance in green. [Blocked image]

I'd still rather buy a GF4 [Blocked image]

Sdram on such an expencieve card.. No wonder it sucks so much.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quoteQuote:
Because graphics chips are processores too. AMD is using new 'unheard of' technology in their new multi-processing systems which are nothing like we see today. They have successfully modified SLi to their needs.

uh huh. I can see it now.. the new AMD Instruction Interleave technology! 10 times less efficient than any other multiprocessing technology on the planet! 100% cache misses when switching CPUs for each instruction!

Hahahaha, since my last post nobody has said anything intelligent, only bitch. I keep repeating the same information and you people keep asking me questions that I have previously answered. If you people whish to believe that you can’t buy new third-party Voodoo cards that have been recently manufactured and not just sitting on a shelf for ages, then go ahead. I can buy them from many places including swap meets and even Harvey Norman if I wanted. Don’t you reply that that you don’t know where a Harvey Norman store is because that would be just as convincing as telling me that the human eye can see more that 30fps.
You people tried to tell us all that your assumption was a fact, but we know better as Martok and Locutus most graciously supplied us with an Optometrists (Eye Doctors) quote.
Also nobody mentioned anything about the UT benchmark I posted did they? Funny that, especially when some of you said a Voodoo5 was shit in OpenGL and D3D and only good for Glide.
Someone else also said that my card runs so well in CS with 4 Sample AA because Halflife supports Glide. Actually I have found my card runs faster in CS in OpenGL than Glide, although explosions look much better under Glide. [Blocked image]
Some of you also said 30fps is jerky on your cards.....I would like to know which ones. The Voodoo5 5500 AGP and 5500 PCI (I own both of them) both run with no difference at 99fps or 30fps in CS. With AA on, you cannot notice the jerking at 25fps! Voodoo5 AA does that. Personally I would rather max my frames at 25 with AA on and see smooth images than 70 or 80 without AA that you people stated, and see jerking! [Blocked image]

U obviously dont get it.. We dont believe that ure voodoo card is good.. We also know the difference between 30-80 frames. u say differnt. We know otherwise. Stop all these Voodoo cards are supperior BFS AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Odyssey:

WTF? I and anyone else can buy them if they want and if they want to fork out the sort of money for a card that the US army use in thier massive simulator machines, than they can.<hr></blockquote>

flamm means no one is buying ur gimmick, as in ur bullshit over these voodoo cards. not physically buying the video card with money u dumbass.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Flammable:
Both.. U havent proved me wrong.. U have not displayed one Benchmark of 3dmark2001 or even 2000 u show me poxy Ut benchmarks.. a game i care not for. U show me NO quake3 benchmarks a game i play on occasions.. Ure marking for 3DFX is not working for me..<hr></blockquote>

Of coarse not, your like talking to a brick wall. I will not benchmark any 3DMark scores because it is so easy to get speed cheats for them. Just ask the guy who had a GF5, Athlon 12,000MHz and a 3DMark or 60,000!
http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/a_speed_cheat/
About Q3, I'll have to install that. I have Eliete Force and that is based on the Q3 engine, can you do a demo in that?
Also I care not for Q3 and I like UT. That is my opinion and you have yours. I have not seen any of your GF256 or even GF2 benchmarks either. The bencmarks I have posted are from independent sourses and thought you would aprove of them more if they were not conducted on my computer.

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: Odyssey ]</p>

I can tell the differnce between a speed cheated score and a realistic one.. it stands out a fucking mile away!

I dont really trust other sources as they have advertising of the product they are promoting.. (could be biased)

EDIT: I have UT installed.. TEll me what i must do to benchmark it!

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: Flammable ]</p>

Odyssey, can I spell it out to you in short words of only one syllable?

WE DON'T WANT ONE

Noone cares where we can buy it, noone cares about your (dubious) benchmarking methods (aside from the pretty colors on your graphs).

I am very happy with my current setup, as is pretty much everyone here (please correct me if i'm wrong). Your sounding like a goddamn salesman, or one of various flavours of god botherers that plague our streets and knock on our doors.

Which is it Flam, you don't like Voodoo's, you don't like being proven wrong or is it both?!?

Both.. U havent proved me wrong.. U have not displayed one Benchmark of 3dmark2001 or even 2000 u show me poxy Ut benchmarks.. a game i care not for. U show me NO quake3 benchmarks a game i play on occasions.. Ure marking for 3DFX is not working for me..

there's a subtle diference between "I like my voodoo5 because of this, this and this reason" and <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you people whish to believe that you can’t buy new third-party Voodoo cards that have been recently manufactured and not just sitting on a shelf for ages, then go ahead. I can buy them from many places including swap meets and even Harvey Norman if I wanted. Don’t you reply that that you don’t know where a Harvey Norman store is because that would be just as convincing as telling me that the human eye can see more that 30fps.
<hr></blockquote>

Not to mention that his "simple opinion" seems to have run for 2 pages straight. Now forgive me if i seem ignorant to you, but to me, thats the hard sell routine.

Had he chosen the first option, I would be happy to accept that, as well as to agree that the Voodoo has some very relevant uses. You try and convince me that I wasted my $300 because I bought a Geforce2 GTS when I am more than satisfied with its performance (in the almost 12 months since I purchased it) and you all of a sudden gain all the irritating qualities of an infomercial or a religious nut on my doorstep.

Yes You three are entitled to your opinion, but don't for one instant think that that doesn't entitle us to ours.

/End of Rant.

Well said..

OK people I think this thread really has run it course..

Lets drop the subject.

*serious look*

[Blocked image]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Odyssey:
If you people wish to believe that you can’t buy new third-party Voodoo cards that have been recently manufactured and not just sitting on a shelf for ages, then go ahead. I can buy them from many places including swap meets and even Harvey Norman if I wanted. Don’t you reply that that you don’t know where a Harvey Norman store is because that would be just as convincing as telling me that the human eye can see more that 30fps.<hr></blockquote>

...If you people wish to believe...
...then go ahead...

He's giving you choices to beleive what you want, so therefore he is acknowledging your opinion.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mephiston:
...Now forgive me if i seem ignorant to you, but to me, thats the hard sell routine.../End of Rant.<hr></blockquote>

You don't appear ignorant to me at all, in fact out of everyone that has replied to Odyssey's posts, your the only one (that i have noticed) isn't over reacting.

In the end, you all have to make your own choices, keep "conversing" in this thread, or leave and let others talk instead of you, i'm sure there are a lot of ppl in the octa community that want to have their say. [Blocked image]

I think this thread has really degraded to a bitch slap fest.

1 person posts something, the next counters, then its back to the 1st.

Sorta like ping pong..

Guess what.

Ping pong bores me to tears.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mephiston:
WE DON'T WANT ONE<hr></blockquote>

He's not trying to sell them to you. You guys don't have to come in here and defend your cards if you don't want to. He's just trying to post his opinions, which he's completely free to do. [Blocked image]